As long as you admit it's currently overkill, then I guess there's not really much more to address on the subject.
Then it is the problem with the healer because i was able to tank that fight at 54k health and nothing went wrong. It was the DPS not burning the boss down fast enough. We got him down to 50% by the time that there is one minute left.Originally Posted by autobahn1212
Festergut is Time to Survive type of fight. Not a EH fight. Even I one shot Festergut in ICC 10.
The reason why we called you a sponges, is because Our dodge and Health is at a good amount that more stamina is a waste until Hard mode. TOGC is different from ICC where the bosses are only hitting you faster and not harder. TOGC's bosses are hitting you slower but harder.
I think i need to post our dear old friends that ended the fight between AGI vs Stam.
Originally Posted by enigmaranOriginally Posted by exochaft
Thanks for reposting it Auroro.
Guys... what you have to realize is that we "agility fans" actually STOPPED gemming straight agility when we grew past Ulduar.
But not going straight agility doesn't make going full stamina suddenly good.
Gearing requires balance, tanking requires health management, through cooldown and what not.
There are Bears around there that, WITH EXPERIENCE, and with THEIR RAID NEEDS in mind, decided to pursue a full stamina gearset. It's not wrong per-se.
What it's wrong is saying "you have to gem all stamina". That's bullshit. As much bullshit as someone who tells you "you have to gem only agility". Because none of them knows what your raid and your gear is like.
The problem is.. there are much more people going after straight stamina now, if nothing else because the random PuG leader, which by definition is a complete retard, is able to measure tanks only by their HP pool, ignoring avoidance, threat, competence and everything else. It's sad, but that's how it is on most servers with the average group.
And that is the reason why you see "don't go full stamina" appear more often than "don't go full agility".
TD;DR: it's called "wisdom lies in the middle".
Originally Posted by Qieth
Stack stamina. For TOGC and in ICC (normal and hard modes) stamina is king.
Maybe you could stack 200 agility and get a few percent more avoidance but it is really not worth it in ICC. You are probably gonna get hit and so make sure you can take more than one unavoided hit.
Most healers massively overheal anyway (esp. Pallies) and so it should not affect your healers mana.
You're assuming that Blizz will model the ICC hard modes after Gormok for every fight. How do you know they won't toss in things such as Jaraxxus' portals which you have to kill. Hell for Fester all they would need to to to make it a hard mode would be to cut down the time on the spores or make them only affect so many people at once (ie everybody only gets 2 stacks max). For Rotface they could make the original person who gets the slime the kiter for the big slime. Not every fight is about the tank getting 2 shot.Originally Posted by klondikebear
Did you bother to read the post I quoted? The guy says every gem but one should be a stamina gem. If that doesn't scream sponge then I don't know what else does.Originally Posted by autobahn1212
Precisely.Originally Posted by Cheezee
Alone in the Darkness says Hi.
Originally Posted by Qieth
Oh god... I thought this was put to bed for now..... /cry /Jump
Thanks Enigmaran for reposting for those who don't research.
I think you mean me for reposting the best post ever.Originally Posted by BeerMug
..........Originally Posted by jtstormrage
Just why you do not research or read before posting.
Blue Socket: STAM
Red Socket: STAM
Yellow Socket: STAM
"Sally, we got another one over here, get me my shotgun."Originally Posted by Lori
Blue Socket: Stamina (Duh)
Red Socket: Shifting Dreadstone (help with threat and avoidance)
Yellow Socket: Nightmare (if the socket bonus is good enough), Vivid Eye of Zul (if the socket bonus is good enough, and the Nightmare been use), Stamina (If the socket bonus is not good enough)
Or you should be smart and be dpsing with +90% damage buff at that point and your paladin with his retarded free life should be tanking.Originally Posted by klondikebear
what does dps have to do with tanking? also i've seen two different WoL parses with a bear and druid tank, the druid tank takes less damage overall.. sure we don't have a free life, but I have more cd's (some are medicre, and it depends on gear)Originally Posted by axxey
the druid > pally tank part was because it seems like you think paladins take less damage and should tank p3 (even tho in 25 you'll have two ph3's for awhile)
L2 Read up on fight mechanics? Being the tank means you need to know more than just "boss hit me, not you".Originally Posted by klondikebear
It doesn't matter who tanks the 3rd inhale but a good feral druid can do more dps than a prot pally simply by swapping to cat form. So who benefits more from a 90% increase in damage? A prot pally with a sword & board or a feral druid with 11k ap and (for those of us not blindly stacking stam) 50%+ crit?
Indeed; equally geared tanks can all tank the 3rd inhale. I tank with a prot pally for both 10 and 25-mans. For 25-mans, we run about 3 full tank phases, so I tank second (right when the 3rd inhale occurs) and get to contribute some catdps twice during the fight. For 10-mans, we run only 2 tank phases, so I tank first (and don't have to worry about taking as much damage).Originally Posted by Cheezee
I'm usually ~11th on our 25-man damage meters (~6 healers, 2 tanks), and ~3rd on our 10-man (2 healers, 2 tanks). At that point, my dps as a tank has become a meaningful contribution to the raid, so we take advantage of that as best as possible.
I know the fight mechanics, yes my dps as a tank matters, but barely. If your going to try and insult me, i'll call you a bad for not realizing that blizzard did not take a bear who could go kitty into consideration for enrage timer + hp + dps.. they even came out in a post saying tank damage should not matter on this fight. if it did, how would a warrior (who has the least dps out of all tank class's i believe) help this fight?Originally Posted by Cheezee
I'm not blindly stacking stamina, I'm doing whats best for my raid. (i have agility gems in my tank gear kthx)
Gonna have to agree with klondikebear on this one. It's one of the larger arguments I throw out against the bearkitty spec: it's insanely arrogant to think that Blizz designs fights around a tank going DPS mid-fight to win the encounter, aka Blizz designing fights around druid tanks. My kitty DPS in bear spec/gear is pretty lackluster and almost the same as my bear DPS anyways (no Shredding Attacks or Rip glyph kills keeping SR and Rip up at all times), only reason I'd do it on fights like Festergut is to drop my threat a bit so I don't steal aggro from the tank that just taunted, then go back to bear with a large enough margin. On Putricide, I opt to OT since I do produce a semi-significant DPS as a Tank, and with all the target switching that goes on, doing kitty DPS with tank spec/gear would just be pretty dismal. Stick to bear!Originally Posted by klondikebear
True; in general tank dps is low, and certainly I wouldn't advocate switching out your spec or gear to try to boost it (other than the usual argument of having enough threat and so on). There are no fights in the game where your tank dps is mandatory, and any example I've seen of people unable to make an enrage timer due to low dps would be far better off getting better geared/skilled dpsers than anything that a tank could possibly do.
The difference with Festergut is that it's the one rare fight where it's possible in full tank spec/gear to actually pull some decent damage, thanks to the debuff. Do you need to? No. Does it hurt? No. It's not about being required to pull that gear or about switching gear/gems/spec just for that fight. Instead, it's about adapting your strategy to best suit your raid. Could my raids survive that fight if I didn't go catdps after tanking? Sure. Do we get through the fight faster this way, with less margin for error if a dps dies? Yes. But again, this is a completely special case.
About Putricide, I've been stuck trying to do as much damage as possible through whatever means possible these days -- our Shadowmourne builder has been trying to figure out the abom driving, which leaves myself and our prot pally on Putricide himself... but I wish there was something reasonable for the third tank to do on that fight.
we got to our first p3 where we could actually do something (other p3's were with 5+ people down) and the raidleader goes, klondike your going to have to go bear and taunt at some point.. (was kitty dps'ing) i probably could have given the healers another second or two to adjust, but i got flattened and i don't think i would have gotten a chance anyways.. i assumed i was going bear for the next pull but they had a holy pally go prot. thats almost the case where tank dps matters, but again blizz said we should be fine with 3 tanks on enrage so someone's stuck feeling sort of uselessOriginally Posted by Sunshine
I never went kitty in a fight while I am tanking Festergut and my group does oneshot the boss without a problem in Ten man, 25 man is a different story.