(38/26/7) PvE

[Durotas]

I know that combat daggers have been dead scince before BC. But for fun I have been toying around with this spec.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent#fhef0...gV0xcxoZxb:kfu

Using the combo point generation from SF, the energy generation from FA/ high crit rate, and the increased damage to Evis/ BS in the top of the ass/combat trees it could help make up for the the energy starvation of most dagger/bs specs. The rotation would be as follows, Gar;SnD, BS to 4 or 5; Rup;(Check SnD) BS to 5; Evis.

I'm assuming that keeping up SnD and Rup may be an issue, as it is with most BS specs; but I havent had a chance to test it out. Purely theory-crafting here.

Any input?

[Stratorogue]

How often are you able to stand behind the boss 100% of the time? Never.

[Sensei_Sin]

The problem being that it wouldn't really be a Combat spec but an Assassination spec that tries to use Back Stab instead of Mutilate.

[Nartalath]

It's not really a combat spec if you have most of the points in the Assassination tree. That being said, you're just not going deep enough into either tree to get a lot of the important damage talents in the deep combat tree, where much of Combat's damage comes from. That's why combat daggers isn't viable, in order to get the energy regen you need you have to sacrifice too much damage, or visa versa.

[Laan]

My first thoughts:

Backstab hits abysmally low for its energy cost
Backstab requires the back of the boss 100% the time
Backstab generates CP's very slow

8% dmg/no CP's wasted on SnD/Being able to envenom for more poison dmg/a better CP generating move = far greater in DPS(not just a measly amount, FAR greater) than getting Blade flurry aggression and maxing out relentless strikes.


Your spec drops the end talents that make raid specs viable...... you might as well try DPSing in a Muti-Prep PVP spec, you'd prolly do more dmg.


and again, one of the biggest problems:

Backstab:
Backstab the target, causing 150% weapon damage plus 465 to the target. Must be behind the target. Requires a dagger in the main hand. Awards 1 combo point.

Mutilate:
Instantly attacks with both weapons for weapon damage plus an additional 181 with each weapon. Damage is increased by 20% against Poisoned targets. Awards 2 combo points.

To put it down for you: .... mutilate gives you attacks with both weapons, with 120% weapon dmg(poisoned increase), + 432(360+20%=432)



150% weapon dmg + 465 + 1CP

or,

180% weapon dmg(added offhand, compensated for fast speed as well) + 432 +2CP (and lets not forget the extra chance to proc poison)
^(about 20% less top end than a 1.8speed, and 25% less dmg due to offhand = 120% + 60%)

[Durotas]

The problem being that it wouldn't really be a Combat spec but an Assassination spec that tries to use Back Stab instead of Mutilate.

True. It's more of a hybrid spec. I was more or less looking for a viable backstab spec. I can see the downfalls though. You really do have to sacrifice alot of damage to make up for the energy starvation issue. The overall BS/Evis buffs aren't going to make up for it. I'm interested to test it out reguardless. It'd be cool to see how it would fare with BiS.

[Annoying]

True. It's more of a hybrid spec. I was more or less looking for a viable backstab spec. I can see the downfalls though. You really do have to sacrifice alot of damage to make up for the energy starvation issue. The overall BS/Evis buffs aren't going to make up for it. I'm interested to test it out reguardless. It'd be cool to see how it would fare with BiS.

Sorry to say, but there is no viable backstab spec. For only 2 more points in assn, you're looking at a combo builder that's superior in every way, simply not worth going that far into assn without mutilate. On top of that, the poison damage from master poisoner, the increased rotation stability of CttC, and HFB's single point for 8% raw damage is pretty unbeatable. Any significant journey into the assn tree yields wanting to take all the juicy end talents.

[Annoying]

Lower the cost of backstab by 15.
Put it on a 6 sec CD.
Backstab does 180-200% weapon dmg + 465 of OH dmg + 2 CPs.
Requires dagger in OH.
Requires you to be behind the target.

Or something like that....THAT might spice up combat a bit.

I was thinking something like that, or leaving it how it is, and making, say, rupture ticks able to reactively give you a free backstab like 20% of the time, spice up our rotation.

[Ian]

I was more or less looking for a viable backstab spec.

There's your problem right there.

Just because you're different, doesn't mean you're useful. Backstab specs have been dead since what? Vanilla?
Cookie-cutter specs are cookie-cutter for a reason. No need to go reinventing the wheel here.

[Sesshou]

Sorry, but that spec is worthless. You would be better off with a traditional combat daggers build (still crap though) or a traditional mut build if you want to be a dagger rogue. Your build just skips the best talents in both trees which makes it worthless.

Yes, they could change the mechanics of backstab. They won't be until Cat at the earliest. There is no viable backstab build, if there was one, it would have been found a while ago.

Why do people keep "creating" new crap specs and asking if they are good/viable? The reason no one uses them is not because no one ever checked to see if other specs (like this one) could be viable, its because they flat out suck so no one uses them. There is no way you will come up with this new hybrid spec and all the top raiding rogues will go "omg thats amazing, I can't believe I didn't think of that, let me to respec".

[Annoying]

Locking this, really don't need more "Is this spec viable?" or "Can I raid as some completely off the wall spec" topics.