Signing multiple rolles allowing to roll need for other spec?

[Omedon]

The biggest and most oft-used misnomer of 3.3 is this idea of "stealing" loot.

You, like everyone else in your group, have a 20% hardcoded guarantee of success, ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/raids-du...d-win/new/#new ) you can not steal, all you can do is (and the system is assuming you know this) "throw down" next to your PUG group. If you indeed have a holy set and you see dice, clicking them is not stealing.

Like I said, I'd agree with you in some way. The problem is.. let's use his regular ToC as an example.

Let's say I've chosen to gear up an alt. My alt needs a stam trinket. I have two options: Regular ToC and heroic Azjol. I sigh, rolling my eyes at the limited choices I have to fill the slot (lol badge dodge trinket) and head on into ToC, an instance that has no other gear for me and doesn't even drop badges.

Wait time between instances, me and random people smash ToC into bits 7 times before the Black Heart drops. (Being generous here). I roll on it, but a resto druid and a DK in my group also roll on it, one of them win it. So basically, I'm just wasting hours of my time to give other asshats the chance to roll on gear that helps something they're not actually doing the role of. Doesn't really seem fair

Why don't I just queue into the ICC heroics as my paladin as a tank, then steal all the holy paladin gear when it drops from the group's holy paladin when it's an obvious upgrade for him, citing that I need it for offspec? Wonder if he'll continue to run heroics with me.

[krasgoth]

I'm not arguing logistics, I'm arguing douchebaggery.

Yes, it's a PuG, and yes, it's not a group of guildies to raid with, but some of the same principles *should* apply.

If I'm healing an instance as my paladin and tank stuff drops that the tank sorely needs, I'm not going to need it and be a complete asshat to him. If I was there for tank drops, I would've gone as a tank.

The mindset is the difference here, I don't flick the little lightswitch in my brain off when I'm doing heroics, maybe some people do. :P

[Omedon]

Oh my light is on, it's very on. It's showing that the rules have changed, and there are growing pains. Passing as you indicate you'd do, is a gift, an altruistic rarety that's nice and all, but it really isn't something to be expected any more than, say, someone walking up to you in dalaran and handing you 1000 gold. It's a random act of kindness, but consider this. A third party can't get in on that trade window and swipe the money. Even if you pass on stuff, everyone in that group needs to be on side with your random act of kindness for it to have its intended effect. Based on the division of every thread that "goes here", I'm not willing to take that chance, so I wish everyone heartfelt luck, and click need.

I'm not arguing logistics, I'm arguing douchebaggery.

Yes, it's a PuG, and yes, it's not a group of guildies to raid with, but some of the same principles *should* apply.

If I'm healing an instance as my paladin and tank stuff drops that the tank sorely needs, I'm not going to need it and be a complete asshat to him. If I was there for tank drops, I would've gone as a tank.

The mindset is the difference here, I don't flick the little lightswitch in my brain off when I'm doing heroics, maybe some people do. :P

[Izhara]

Oh my light is on, it's very on. It's showing that the rules have changed, and there are growing pains. Passing as you indicate you'd do, is a gift, an altruistic rarety that's nice and all, but it really isn't something to be expected any more than, say, someone walking up to you in dalaran and handing you 1000 gold. It's a random act of kindness, but consider this. A third party can't get in on that trade window and swipe the money. Even if you pass on stuff, everyone in that group needs to be on side with your random act of kindness for it to have its intended effect. Based on the division of every thread that "goes here", I'm not willing to take that chance, so I wish everyone heartfelt luck, and click need.

I pass because I know that by cutting the odds down to at worst 25% for that person to win their item, I've already drastically improved their chance even if everyone else rolls need against them.

[Omedon]

I pass because I know that by cutting the odds down to at worst 25% for that person to win their item, I've already drastically improved their chance even if everyone else rolls need against them.

you've also improved everyone else's chance

if you really want to be that nice, roll, and hand it over. That's actually how I got my rimefang'a claw, some random paladin who won it in a group I was leading handed it to me. I was pretty stunned, but it certainly wasn't something I expected. I thanked him, saluted and left. This scenario existed entirely within the 20% guarantee, and someone got to be memorably kind.

[dotSeed]

The biggest and most oft-used misnomer of 3.3 is this idea of "stealing" loot.

You, like everyone else in your group, have a 20% hardcoded guarantee of success, ( http://www.mmo-champion.com/raids-du...d-win/new/#new ) you can not steal, all you can do is (and the system is assuming you know this) "throw down" next to your PUG group. If you indeed have a holy set and you see dice, clicking them is not stealing.

What a pile of horseshit. You know why people didn't need on tanking gear, over tanks, whilst DPSing before LFD? Because they knew it was a douchebag move and didn't want to get a bad rep. The only reason it happens now is because there's no impact on their PUGing because the likelihood of those people grouping with you again is so low.

It's baffling you've even got to explain this to people. How about stop making this game so goddamn frustrating to play? How about people not be total dickfucks to each other?

[Toas]

Giving away 1000g and passing on an offspec item that someone desperately needs for mainspec are hardly the same things. One's exteme generosity, the other is having some common respect for other people.

"Oh but we all have a 20% chance to win stuff#"

First off, we don't. Pretend your party is a pally tank, druid healer, rouge, hunter, and mage. NES drops and the pally and druid both roll on it. (Ignoring the fact that it sucks for pallies), ok so they've rolled on the dps's stuff..but now some plate gear drops. The pally has 100% chance to win it cause he's the only plate wearer. So as one of those dps, I've just lost my dps trinket to the tank and then watched the tank win his items unopposed.

Second, can you really say you like this system? You'd trade a 100%(50%/33% depending on type of dps) chance to win your mainspec item for a 20% to win your item plus a 20% chance to win an offspec item? The best thing, imo, would be if there were no offspec rolls, so you ran the HC as a healer until you got your item (which you will the first time it drops), and then you queue up as tank/dps until you get that item (which you will the first time it drops (depending on group make-up)).

Most bosses have like 4-5 drops. So there's already only a 20% chance your item will drop. Then you have a 20% chance of getting it if it does drop. Wow, a 4% chance to win an item, amazing odds. It'll only take you nearly a month to get your items on average. Or if there were no offspec rolls, it could take you 5 runs to see it drop, but then you'd have a 100%(50%/33%) chance of winning it. Hm, 20% chance to win something vs. 4% chance to win something...

[Omedon]

Gotta be brief because it's time to head home, but in a nutshell, yes, I readilly and hapily accept this system.

You speak like a month is a long time to gear up. Are you being sarcastic? I'm not, I'm honestly curious.

[Toas]

Gotta be brief because it's time to head home, but in a nutshell, yes, I readilly and hapily accept this system.

You speak like a month is a long time to gear up. Are you being sarcastic? I'm not, I'm honestly curious.

A month average to win 1 item as opposed to 5 days average to win an item? Yes I'd say a month is quite a considerable amount of time longer.

[Omedon]

A month average to win 1 item as opposed to 5 days average to win an item? Yes I'd say a month is quite a considerable amount of time longer.

That five day scenario you are speaking of is based on an agreement you can still reach between friends you know, like and trust. You cannot, nor can anyone be realistically expected to reach this rapport with someone they know for fifteen minutes at a time. Blizzard knows this, and they have made an iron clad automated system to facilitate it.

A month for an item, sounds crazy doesn't it? Ludicrous! Tell me, how long will it take to deck yourself out in tier 10?

Wow is not built for you to get in and out in a hurry.

*crowd of screaming fans* What!?

It's a time investment!

What!?

It's supposed to entertain you for awhile!

What!?

To be honest, it's actually in my best interest for your gearing up phase to take awhile!

What!?

'Cuz I need ya.

What!?

And you need me.

What!?

I'm saying we need each other.

What!?

I need your Main spec

What!?

your off spec

What!?

Here a spec

What!?

There a spec

What!?

Everywhere a dual spec

What!?

See, the rues have changed

What!?

We aint all warrior tanks and priest healers anymore

What!?

There's some elemental shamans in the mix

What!?

Some feral druids

What!?

Some Holy paladins

What!?

And we're all judged by what we show up in

What!?

It's rough.

What!?

Everyone wants tanks with 50k health

What!?

Healers with 30 k mana

What!?

DPS that pull 7k

What!?

It's crazy

What!?

Bat s**t nuts even

What!?

And we gotta get that gear from somwehere

What!?

Because we're all supposed to magically have it the first time we use that spec

What!?

So where do we get it?

What!?

In the couch?

What!?

From the second hand shop?

What!?

Nope, we get it from rolling offspec

What!?

Because it's built that way now.

What!?

Because it's 3.3

What!?

Not 3.2

What!?

Not 2.2

What!?

3.3

What!?

With the dungeon finder

What!?

That doesn't care what spec you're in when it comes to loot

What!?

On purpose

What!?

For realz

What!?

Because the rules have changed.

What!?

So play by the rules

What!?

Or don't play.

What!?

So good luck!

What!?

I hope you get everything you want.

What!?

Because I'll be right there with ya

What!?

Rollin need

What!?

When I need stuff.

AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE...

CUZ STONE COLD (also known as Blizzard Entertainment) SAID SO!

*glass shatters, crowd goes nuts*

[Toas]

The 5 day scenario I am referring isn't some far off alter-dimension that can never happen in Pugs. It was reality before 3.3 and cross-realm dungeons. When I refer'd to it, I was asking you if you actually liked post-3.3 dungeons' loot system better than pre-3.3 dungeons loot system. In order words, 4% chance for all specs or 20% chance for one spec?

And as for investing time..we are talking about heroics here. Blizzard doesn't want us to run heroics for months before we can even begin to start raiding, that's why they upgraded the emblems. There's plenty to do in WoW besides run a heroic every day for a month straight hoping to get 1 specific piece of gear. No one's going to get bored and quit as soon as they have their 1 HC epic that they wanted from a particular HC.

[Cortano]

The basic rule is: if its a good, long term item for you then roll on it.

You don't need really bring the role you are currently playing into it; historically, it was a lazy way figure out if someone was being greedy or not, but with dual-specs, the situation is more complex now.

[Divinedoom]

It's a random 5man group. Need all you can. No one SHOULD care.

How should i not care when for example on my recently dinged warior tank on my battlegroup i have a 30 minute-1hour waiting time for HoR normal. I've ran it over 10 times for the cloak and its been ninja'ed by dps twice already? Ofcourse i care since its costing me a lot of time in an instance i dont want to be in anymore (i outgear it by quite some now, its only the damn cloak..) and in waiting time. If you really want tanking loot only sign as tank, if you really want dps loot only sign as dps, if you really want healer loot only sign as healer etc. its not that difficult really.. Then if you see something drop youd want for another spec then youre in on that run you look if someone who needs it for the role they are in needs it. If not just ask if you can take it for offspec.
Btw ontop of that, one of the dps needing it even linked his naxx 25 ilvl 213 tanking cloak he replaced with this new 219 cloak. While me, their actual tank, had the 187 blue wrymrest cloak. And its my 3rd level 80 tank, i know what im doing and im not a bad tank. Its not because of that..

Ontop of that i think it is quite unfair to classes who can only perform 1 role (the "pure" dps'ers) to have others need on everything they could need for anything of up to 4 roles (druid) just because they sign up for every role. For example someone who's gearing their tank mainspec who signs as every role and then feels entitled to roll on everything just because he knows he'll get entered as tank anyway.

[Elgybub]

Ok so where do i stand??

Ele shammy, i que as healer dps for every dungeon yet since the new system i have not been chosen too dps a random yet i am a dps. am allowed to roll on dps gear? :P or resto? i don't let people die if they do whats correct i,e not over aggro the tank to much. Though even as resto i can pull 2k or more on alot of heroic boss fights which if ur beating the dps....?

You can't make a line, and if u do no one will stick to it, luckily im in a position where heroic loot is of no interest to myself but shards might still be nice as opposed to boosting some noob socketing the alchemy trinket for attack power (same matz almost as the spellpower one when he's a shadow priest!!!! and getting grief when he dies because he ran into a mob.

Effectively imo if u don't have the friends to run with who'll help u don't expect others to do the decent thing, just hope they will and if ur the dick that ninja's stuff for offspec well just inform people at the beginning of the run...pretty sure the majority of the time dps who say they are rolling on tank/healz woudl be voted to kick, while a tank and healer won't (the case on our server anyway)

Lastly its a flaming heroic who cares! go find a friend for a nice 10m or group with friends for the heroic...and u gotta be kidding if u can't find 4 friends?

[soulcrusher]

QQ whine whine. ;D get a grip guys its purple pixels from a 5 man. soon enough itll be like all the other 5 mans and no one will care, everything will be sharded. you really need to get out more if this upsets you so much.