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  1. #1

    Faerie Fire - a huge quality of life issue.

    Yeah yeah, we all know it's not balanced around 1v1, 2v2, 10v1, 9v343 etc, blah blah "get a dispeller" the usual herp derp and stuff, but lets face it - even though it gets dispelled instantly in arena or when you have a pocket dispeller on you (making it kinda "balanced") - it's HUGE when you don't have a dispeller on you.

    Basically it totaly locks out a rogue or forces him into using a long and valuable cd against something that can be reapplied with ease. Stealth is our key ability, we are useless without it. Ironically enough, for some reason we can't even vanish (which is also our key ability that shouldn't be used against a spammable spell) out of it like we can out of hunter's mark.

    I mean, imagine a single spammable spell that would lock a druid in his current from without letting him shapeshift without using, for example, survival instincts? Even if it can be dispelled by a healer - would it be fair? I don't think so. Yeah it would probably be ok in arena with a dispeller on your arse but would such a spell be justified? I Doubt it.
    Last edited by Catsqt; 2011-11-24 at 03:21 PM.

  2. #2
    It has a short cooldown so is hardly spammable... Also, it's not ironic that you can't vanish out of it because the whole reason you're moaning about it is because you can't stealth, vanish = stealth (+leave combat).

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Phototropic View Post
    It has a short cooldown so is hardly spammable... Also, it's not ironic that you can't vanish out of it because the whole reason you're moaning about it is because you can't stealth, vanish = stealth (+leave combat).
    I find it amusing how someone with a lvl 85 rogue doesn't know the difference between stealth and vanish and at the same time posts here in such manner. Moreso, the person also has a druid and thinks faerie fire has a cd, clearly forgetting (or possibly not even knowing?) that he has 2 different faerie fires.
    Last edited by Catsqt; 2011-11-16 at 12:20 PM.

  4. #4
    Herp derp, I don't PvP. Any way...

    www.wowhead.com/spell=16857 -- if you had have noticed, my druid is feral and I was referring to that spec (you didn't actually say which spec you meant).

    and

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1856 -- namely the "For the first 3 sec after vanishing, damage and harmful effects received will not break stealth" part.

    Edit: re. the second link... given that, whislt afflicted with Faerie Fire, "the target cannot stealth or turn invisible", the whole point is moot... should this particular part be removed from the spell, in my humble opinion? Yeah, sure.

    Edit#2: @ below me:
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    ...I'm pretty sure that the non-feral version breaks you out of Cat/Bear form.
    It does!
    Last edited by Phototropic; 2011-11-16 at 12:31 PM.

  5. #5
    Dreadlord DerSenf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catsqt View Post
    ...
    even though hunter's mark doesn't have such a long duration as faerie fire, it gets dispelled instanly
    ...
    The regular Hunter's Mark lasts 5 minutes, like FF. If you mean the Marksmanship exclusive Marked for Death that lasts 15 seconds, that one is not dispellable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phototropic View Post
    It has a short cooldown so is hardly spammable...
    In Bear/Cat form only. Normal FF has no cd.

  6. #6
    At the risk of sounding like a troll, Vanish is such a cowardly ability. Stay until the end of a fight, don't run away from it. As for FF I'm pretty sure that the non-feral version breaks you out of Cat/Bear form.

  7. #7
    Never did I think someone would QQ about this. -_-

  8. #8
    Actually this does seem like an odd double standard. Its my personal opinion that vanish shouldn't remove mark, which doesn't actually inhibit stealth but allows the hunter to see you, but it would seem that it really should be one way or the other.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a troll, Vanish is such a cowardly ability. Stay until the end of a fight, don't run away from it. As for FF I'm pretty sure that the non-feral version breaks you out of Cat/Bear form.
    How about you roll a warlock and I go like "punch me with your staff, coward! Stop running away like a ^%(&", would that be a smart thing to say?

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 02:32 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Phototropic View Post
    Herp derp, I don't PvP. Any way...[/I]
    The real problem is that you don't know your class(es), not that you don't pvp.

  10. #10
    I don't play a Rogue, and I have played a Druid (both Resto and Feral) in PvP.

    I think the arguments for Faerie Fire being too strong/too long duration is absolutely justified. Preventing Stealth for a Rogue is like having a long duration silence vs Ret Paladins. Making Faerie Fire the same as Hunter's Mark but with a shorter duration (due to armor reduction) - as in giving the caster vision of the Rogue even if he's Stealthed, but not actually preventing it, would be fine. Druids might need some sort of buff to compensate, but really, Faerie Fire is too strong as it is.

    ---------- Post added 2011-11-16 at 01:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by quikbunny View Post
    At the risk of sounding like a troll, Vanish is such a cowardly ability. Stay until the end of a fight, don't run away from it. As for FF I'm pretty sure that the non-feral version breaks you out of Cat/Bear form.
    Don't worry, you don't sound like a troll. You only sound like someone who doesn't have much of a clue about actual PvP and balance.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Catsqt View Post
    The real problem is that you don't know your class(es), not that you don't pvp.
    lololol, ignore the rest of the post then

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Noxiye View Post
    Don't worry, you don't sound like a troll. You only sound like someone who doesn't have much of a clue about actual PvP and balance.
    Really? Last time I checked Rogues have - a self heal (that's pretty powerful and gives evergy when talented), high opening burst, plenty of stuns, a snare, a talent that gives them like 1000000% damage reduction when they are close to death, Blind, Smoke Bomb and an ability that removes all damage over time effects and makes them immune to magic damage for x seconds.

    Now throw the balance arguement at me again please. Rogues do not need Vanish, it only encourages bad Rogues to stay bad.

  13. #13
    I personally love when the rogue I am fighting gets FF'd, it means that once i get them down to 10% HP they aren't just going to bitch out and vanish and go sit in a corner waiting for recup to heal them back up.

    Vanish is a huge quality of life issue for anyone that is not a rogue, As even terrible rogues can still live if they vanish and run away like little bitches. Makes world PvP vs rogues boring, because either way, bad or Good a rogue will always get away, you never seem to get the HK.

  14. #14
    CoS is a 1 minute CD. Vanish is a 3 min cd. Anyways, i likely will have a bleed on you. Rogue qqing already got you 4s of improved vanish to help when you vanish with a bleed on you, allowing rogues to easily attempt to gank a target in world/BGs while easily being able to escape with a blind/vanish/sprint combo.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Phototropic View Post
    Herp derp, I don't PvP. Any way...

    www.wowhead.com/spell=16857 -- if you had have noticed, my druid is feral and I was referring to that spec (you didn't actually say which spec you meant).

    and

    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=1856 -- namely the "For the first 3 sec after vanishing, damage and harmful effects received will not break stealth" part.

    Edit: re. the second link... given that, whislt afflicted with Faerie Fire, "the target cannot stealth or turn invisible", the whole point is moot... should this particular part be removed from the spell, in my humble opinion? Yeah, sure.

    Edit#2: @ below me:


    It does!
    Yes correct, the point is that it shouldn't prevent using stealth (it can still provide vision of the stealthed just like hunter's mark), allowing the use of vanish.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Phototropic View Post
    lololol, ignore the rest of the post then
    What he said rings true to me too, Faerie Fire, a very much spammable spell, to a lessened extent even in Feral forms, prevents two Rogue key abilities. That does not happen for any other class with any spell that has such a short CD + long duration. Feral Druids are the second most affected by this, but it's not quite as bad seeing as Prowl is not as much of a signature/must-have ability as Stealth.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  17. #17
    If it didn't prevent stealth, non-feral druids wouldn't use it. And we know how well non-feral druids are doing in arena right now. I assume you are sub, so can't you just shadow dance anyway?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by DerSenf View Post
    The regular Hunter's Mark lasts 5 minutes, like FF. If you mean the Marksmanship exclusive Marked for Death that lasts 15 seconds, that one is not dispellable.
    In PvP Hunter's Mark should have 30 seconds duration to player targets, and Marked for Death is only ranged attack power bonus, doesn't add stealth tracking.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by DraconusIX View Post
    CoS is a 1 minute CD. Vanish is a 3 min cd. Anyways, i likely will have a bleed on you. Rogue qqing already got you 4s of improved vanish to help when you vanish with a bleed on you, allowing rogues to easily attempt to gank a target in world/BGs while easily being able to escape with a blind/vanish/sprint combo.
    CloS has a 1.5m CD, Vanish has a 2m CD. Bleeds don't take Rogues out of Vanish instantly due to the new (not quite new) Vanish. Faerie Fire prevents all usage of it, rather than simply giving the Druid vision of the Rogue regardless, as it should out of a game balance perspective.
    I'm not a native English speaker, and yet, I don't suck at English. The argument "English is not my mother tongue" doesn't actually give you an excuse to do so.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Asthreon View Post
    I personally love when the rogue I am fighting gets FF'd, it means that once i get them down to 10% HP they aren't just going to bitch out and vanish and go sit in a corner waiting for recup to heal them back up.

    Vanish is a huge quality of life issue for anyone that is not a rogue, As even terrible rogues can still live if they vanish and run away like little bitches. Makes world PvP vs rogues boring, because either way, bad or Good a rogue will always get away, you never seem to get the HK.
    No offense but I personaly love taking down 3 clueless people at once without losing even 50% of my HP because they simple have no idea how rogues work.

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