Outdated DPS guide

[figginnoob]

Since you copy/pasted the Unholy first page from the Elitist Jerks thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-u...t_you_want_me/

Unless you are Consider, I hope you give Consider the credit...

[Nangz]

Since you copy/pasted the Unholy first page from the Elitist Jerks thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-u...t_you_want_me/

Unless you are Consider, I hope you give Consider the credit...

Since you didn't read the post I hope you do so and see that he DID give him credit.

Under rotations but technically he could just list em at the top or bottom for all of those who he got info from

[figginnoob]

Since you didn't read the post I hope you do so and see that he DID give him credit.

Under rotations but technically he could just list em at the top or bottom for all of those who he got info from

I did read it, homie. But you're right. I totally missed where he gave him some credit. I stand corrected.

[figginnoob]

I want too add that you need to fix your statement about all specs gemming for STR. This is NOT the case. There are situations where you don't gems strictly for STR. For example, if you're wearing 264 gear, your set bonus is +6 STR, your 4 under the hit cap, and you have a yellow socket, you would socket your yellow with a +10 STR + 10 Hit gem.

Honestly, dude, if you want to do the readers here at MMO-Champ a favor. Just sticky a post with links to each Blood/Unholy/Frost thread over at Elitist Jerks. It will save the readers time and minimize any mistakes the OP might make during any translation.

[Nangz]

I want too add that you need to fix your statement about all specs gemming for STR. This is NOT the case. There are situations where you don't gems strictly for STR. For example, if you're wearing 264 gear, your set bonus is +6 STR, your 4 under the hit cap, and you have a yellow socket, you would socket your yellow with a +10 STR + 10 Hit gem.

Honestly, dude, if you want to do the readers here at MMO-Champ a favor. Just sticky a post with links to each Blood/Unholy/Frost thread over at Elitist Jerks. It will save the readers time and minimize any mistakes the OP might make during any translation.

One could say that about pretty much any guide. The EJ ones are technicaly the best.

[kumduh]

Since you copy/pasted the Unholy first page from the Elitist Jerks thread:

http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t72364-u...t_you_want_me/

Unless you are Consider, I hope you give Consider the credit...

Actually, the only thing I copy/pasted from the EJ thread was the rotations, and yes, I did give Consider credit.

Rotations *thanks to Consider from EJ

While elements of the Unholy page may look similar to those from EJ, they were not copy/pasted. Actually I take that back, the specs were copy/pasted, but I could have just as easily made them myself off the top of my head using the Wowhead talent calculator. FYI I also copy/pasted the rotations from the EJ blood guide.

Rotations *thanks to Soilantgreen64 from EJ

The point is while EJ has tons and tons of outstanding information, I wanted this guide to be quick and simple so that people new DK DPS wouldn't have to read through pages upon pages to learn the basics. If anything, I copied elements of Zao's tanking guide to keep things consistent in the forums.

Honestly, dude, if you want to do the readers here at MMO-Champ a favor. Just sticky a post with links to each Blood/Unholy/Frost thread over at Elitist Jerks. It will save the readers time and minimize any mistakes the OP might make during any translation.

Did you even read the disclaimer?

This topic is directed at:
People without time to browse EJ. If you have the time to read some advanced literature, http://elitistjerks.com/f72/ will cover everything listed here AND MORE.

[figginnoob]

@Kumduh

You're correct, man. I missed where you gave those individuals credit. That was my mistake. In all honestly, I wasn't trying to cause a conflict here. I can appreciate what you're doing with this post. All I'm saying is the First page of each of those threads over at EJ contain all the accurate, up to date information regarding each spec. The information on the first page of each of those threads contains all the vital information for any individual, beginner or veteran, looking for a consolidated and easy to read guide.

Granted, the rest of the posts in each of those threads can be overwhelming. But when new and credible information comes to light, the first page information is updated extremely quickly. A person just starting a DK, need only read the first post of the corresponding thread to gain all the information they need to learn their class.

I don't mean any disrespect. But, 99% of the time, it's best to go strait to the source. Respectfully, I won't say anything else about it.

[Thepuntedone]

I've noticed that I can not keep up with Rogues, mages, and hunters in single target DPS. I've been testing over the weeks on saurfang and I've been pulling about 8.3-8.7k DPS. Also one of my DK friends is slightly above me in gearscore and pulls 9.3k on saurfang. I'm not sure if its due to him having Byrntroll and I don't but thats a pretty big difference imo for being so close on gearscore.

This is my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Thepuntedone

This is my rotation (same as my DK friend): PS - IT - BS - SS - BS - DC - HOW - DC - SS - SS - SS - Runic dump - Repeat

Is theres any thing I should change? My gemming/enchants are all up to date as well as my spec.

How about my rotation? I know its slightly different than the one on elitistjerks but its the same idea.

[Nangz]

I've noticed that I can not keep up with Rogues, mages, and hunters in single target DPS. I've been testing over the weeks on saurfang and I've been pulling about 8.3-8.7k DPS. Also one of my DK friends is slightly above me in gearscore and pulls 9.3k on saurfang. I'm not sure if its due to him having Byrntroll and I don't but thats a pretty big difference imo for being so close on gearscore.

This is my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Thepuntedone

This is my rotation (same as my DK friend): PS - IT - BS - SS - BS - DC - HOW - DC - SS - SS - SS - Runic dump - Repeat

Is theres any thing I should change? My gemming/enchants are all up to date as well as my spec.

How about my rotation? I know its slightly different than the one on elitistjerks but its the same idea.

In equal gear mages hunters and rogues will generally do more single target damage than you.

That being said improvements you can do would be your rotation first off

PT IT BS BS SS DC HOW DC SS SS SS dump

you do back to back BS's so they will refresh in time

Other suggestion i could make is to not drop you 2/5 t9 just yet. Wait untill you get one more piece of t10 then got directly from 2/5 t9 and 2/5 t10 into 4/5 t10

[Thepuntedone]

In equal gear mages hunters and rogues will generally do more single target damage than you.

That being said improvements you can do would be your rotation first off

PT IT BS BS SS DC HOW DC SS SS SS dump

you do back to back BS's so they will refresh in time

Other suggestion i could make is to not drop you 2/5 t9 just yet. Wait untill you get one more piece of t10 then got directly from 2/5 t9 and 2/5 t10 into 4/5 t10

Alrighty, thanks for the advice

[figginnoob]

I've noticed that I can not keep up with Rogues, mages, and hunters in single target DPS. I've been testing over the weeks on saurfang and I've been pulling about 8.3-8.7k DPS. Also one of my DK friends is slightly above me in gearscore and pulls 9.3k on saurfang. I'm not sure if its due to him having Byrntroll and I don't but thats a pretty big difference imo for being so close on gearscore.

This is my armory: http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...n=Thepuntedone

This is my rotation (same as my DK friend): PS - IT - BS - SS - BS - DC - HOW - DC - SS - SS - SS - Runic dump - Repeat

Is theres any thing I should change? My gemming/enchants are all up to date as well as my spec.

How about my rotation? I know its slightly different than the one on elitistjerks but its the same idea.

You're using the wrong rotation for a Reaping build. Also, the difference between the Brynntroll and your weapon is pretty significant. Never consider Gear Score for anything. You're gearcore may be huge, but you're also rocking a massive amount of hit. Your other DK's stats may be better allocated than yours, which would also contribute to the DPS variance between you two.

Edit:

You have enough gear to stick with the T10. Plenty.

[crhme]

This is a nice initiative.

However, I must confess I'm not too hooked on the Frost part of this guide...it seems rather rushed.

About the spec displayed, It's not in any way a bad spec, but I do know that there are specs that would utilize both Merciless Combat and Unbreakable Armor. Merciless Combat is self explanatory in a raid situation and although I dislike Unbreakable Armor personally a smart player could, and most likely would, use it with Blood Tap to increase his dps over the course of a fight. Glyph of Howling Blast is also chosen. I don't really see it being useful in any sort of situation, especially not with the rotations sugested. It should atleast be noted that Glyph of Icy Touch is a viable, and probably better, alternative.

About the single target rotation. As such it is fine, but waiting for Killing Machine procs once you're a couple of cycles into combat isn't realistic at all, as you'll probably be using every single GCD available. Instead I would recommend weaving in Frost Strikes whenever the amount of Runic Power available is above 32 and Frost Fever is present on the target. This way there is a greater chance to burn a Killing Machine proc quickly so a new proc can take it's place.

On the AoE rotation, I'm not sure if it's a mistake or not, but using Howling Blast before spreading your diseases seems a bit odd. Howling Blast damage is boosted significantly by the talents Glacier Rot and Tundra Stalker which both require a disease, and in Tundra stalkers case Frost Fever specifically, to be present on the target. And if you weave Frost Strikes it won't matter that the Death Runes granted aren't completely aligned as long as you don't end up with either 2 Unholy or 2 Frost Runes for your last Obliterate.

About Rime procs, I agree that they should probably be used asap, but it should be noted that you only need to use it before you use Obliterate again, which means on single target fights it's ok to let it hang a bit and use Blood Strikes or Frost Strike.

That's all I have I think, and I'm by no means an expert number cruncher, so don't kill me if I slipped somewhere.

[kumduh]

I apologize for any failings the Frost part of the guide has. I have personally never played Frost and thus I outsourced this part of the guide to players who felt they knew enough to write it for me. I simply cleaned up what they sent me and posted it.

This isn't simply for the previous poster, but for everyone. Please inform me of any problems you see with the current version of the Frost guide. The more specific you can be, the better.

[Exclusive]

In the first FAQ piece, it says use FC rune for blood/unholy. How about the frost players?
I think you should state the following:
FC/RI on fights with little to no target switching or dps-breaks (saurfang, festergut, etc)
FC/FC on fights with switching and movement (deathwhisper, BPC, etc)
This because the debuff can fall off and it sure takes some time to build it up again.

Also, for gloves enchant, 15str is for some specs beter than 44ap.
For example for Unholy, 1str equals 3.xx AP (depending on spec/gear level), so for example if for your gear/spec it's worth 3.2AP, then 15str equals 48AP
The gain is very marginal, and nobody will ever really, but, beter is beter

Besides that, good post, I hope it gets updated and won't get outdated like the last one ^^

[kumduh]

In the first FAQ piece, it says use FC rune for blood/unholy. How about the frost players?
I think you should state the following:
FC/RI on fights with little to no target switching or dps-breaks (saurfang, festergut, etc)
FC/FC on fights with switching and movement (deathwhisper, BPC, etc)
This because the debuff can fall off and it sure takes some time to build it up again.

The Frost guide includes what rune enchants should be used for dual wielding. I'll add it to the FAQ as well.

[Admuntour]

I did some investigating while running Rawr and Kahorie's DK simulator to compare UH and Blood specs at high levels of gear. I was worried that UH would outscale Blood and I'd be left in the dust running my favorite spec doing least DPS.

Anyway, I tested with 264 gear level and Shadowmourne, trinkets used are Deathbringer's Will and Death' Choice heroic and ran simulations with strength or with arp gems.
What I found was a little surprising. It seems that blood surpases unholy after a certain point. Both Rawr and Kahorie's showed that Blood would overtake UH by about 100 DPS. Blood doing 10023 DPS and UH doing 9934 DPS.
However Rawr and Kahorie's contradicted themselfs when it came to armor pen. Rawr indicated to me that blood gemming full armor pen would provide better DPS even at 264 gear level, while Kahorie's indicated that both strength and arp would yield the same DPS.

Anyway, after testing with two different simulators it seems worth mentioning that ArP gemming could be viable even in 264 gear and be a great boost to blood.
Though this is a bit uncertain and perhaps necessitates more simulations and calculations.

[BoxofRox]

Boneshield is very interesting.

It DOES remove stacks from aoes but only specific ones

example: bone storm

it won't remove from pungent blight or the ticks of the gash on festerut.

It will remove an auto attack from a boss.

So... What I'm trying to understand... Bone Shield removes stacks on spells that aren't targeted against you. Bone Storm is physical, but pungent blight is not physical, nor directed at one specific person.

Very interesting spell, I never knew it had kinks like that, I'm used to hitting it when it's off cooldown :/

[Shiira]

Anyway, I tested with 264 gear level and Shadowmourne, trinkets used are Deathbringer's Will and Death' Choice heroic and ran simulations with strength or with arp gems.
What I found was a little surprising. It seems that blood surpases unholy after a certain point. Both Rawr and Kahorie's showed that Blood would overtake UH by about 100 DPS. Blood doing 10023 DPS and UH doing 9934 DPS.

You might want to check your sims, I'm pretty sure both specs should be performing better than that in that kind of gear. Personally I sim about 10150 as unholy with five pieces of gear that are 264 or better, and back that up with similar performance in actual raids.

[Admuntour]

My Rawr indicates I can get up to 11300 as blood and 11200 as UH, its the other I can't configure properly I guess.
Anyway, I wanted to share my findings and see if others believe ArP is worth gemming, and to hear counter arguments.

[Perline]

I don't know why but for some reason my DPS goes from 4k to 2k and it keeps going up and down like that... I'm well geared and my rotation is good... What could be causing that!?