1. #1

    Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    I wanted to ask for a bit of advice about some gear choices I'm going to be making soon. Let me start off by saying I raid both 10 and 25 man ICC. I would say I spend roughly 55% of my raids in holy, 45% of my raids in discipline.

    I'd probably say I'm not the most efficient person at min/maxing my stats, and I don't have much money or badges to spend, but I'd like to know if I should get gear padded for Holy - (Spellpower, Spirit, Haste) or gear padded for Discipline (Spellpower, Intellect, Crit/Haste) if I spend roughly half of my raiding time in both specs.

    Would spirit gear with no added crit/haste benefit discipline more than say haste/crit with no added spirit gear would benefit holy? I hope that phrasing makes sense.

    I'd love to hear feedback.

  2. #2
    Fluffy Kitten Ultima's Avatar
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    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    I believe I've made mention of this a few times, I don't think it's possible to gem and gear for both specs and be doing as well as you could.

    What do you think you would be the most?

    If you were to gear for Spirit and Haste (with crit between 25-30, higher doesn't hurt but), Disc will not benefit from that Spirit, alternatively, if you gear for Disc, in Holy spec you will notice the low Spell Power and possible lack of regen.

    If you really really want to, I guess it comes down to which spec you will play the most..
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  3. #3

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    Well Ultima ..

    He is pointing out that he is aware that he can not gear/gem/ench perfectly while in both spec using the same gear. Though he still wants to get the best out of it.

    that being said, I still think you are right.
    --
    @ OP :
    I assume that your guild doesn't too many hc modes!? Since you dont have that many emblems to spend.

    Though as long as the hardmodes are not out, yet; Non of us will be be drowning in emblems.

    You say that you play holy 55 % and disc 45 % of the time.

    If I were you I would try to make a mainspec, gem for that and then have a a offspec which you only use in fights were it is needed.

    Itemize all your gear for your mainspec and then collect offspec pieces during weekly's/ICC and other fun stuff like Ulduar meta achievement etc. you might be doing with your guild/friends

    I know that you asked for some help, but when you dont fly straight(no offence ofc) its hard coming with a fulfilling answer.

    I suggest you talk to your RL or GM regarding your problems( and what spec they prefer you playing) and manifest that if they want you to play as both spec's they also need to understand that you need more offspec gear than the regular.

    //Cheers

  4. #4

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    Gem for spell power, haste till 400, gear towards crit and have enough intellect to reach 30k mp raid buffed as disc, then you are set. I build my gear exactly like that in ToC, and unless you team up with decent healers, ppl wont notice the difference at all.

  5. #5
    Fluffy Kitten llDemonll's Avatar
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    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    self boasting mode on:

    Personally I like my gear choice a lot. I don't have mana problems as disc or holy however disc is my primary spec. Being a CoH priest in BC I still have this thing in my head that says 'spirit is freaking amamzing' (not so much anymore as sadly my regen at 70 was higher than it is now at 80, tells you how flawed the system then was).

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...agonmaw&n=Kyre

    The only thing I change between disc and holy is MH/OH combo to the anub25 mace and the twins OH (both normal mode). other than that the gear is literally the exact same.

    for comparison, http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/5...m/healingDone/ that's the log for our last raid night. I was disc up to putricide and was holy for the few attempts on him we did that night. While you can't see in detail how much mana i had, stuff like that you can get a pretty good sense that it functions just fine for both specs.

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  6. #6

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    It depends heavily on your gear level to how well you can pull it off and no matter what you do you'll have a better set for Holy than Disc. In general what you want is a combination of Haste/Spirit gear and Crit/Spirit gear. Don't take MP/5 and don't take Crit/Spirit gear if you can help it. Then gem SP, SP/Haste and SP/Spirit. You'll need multiple trinkets to swap for each spec as well. It gets very messy and because Disc gear is good for Holy, but Holy gear is bad for Disc you wind up with a much better set for Holy.

  7. #7
    Herald of the Titans -Ethos-'s Avatar
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    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    I'll admit i'm one of the priests who uses the same gear for both specs. I gem for SP is essentially every socket and stack it as much as i can. I usually play disc for the majority of ICC and only go holy usually for Putricide and BQL for the moment. As Harky said at a certain gear level it can get fairly easy to pull off and you can still get your job done, but without the haste levels of our other Holy Priest i tend to fall a bit short by comparison.

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  8. #8

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    haste and intellect is good for both specs so generally gem for those is my advice.

    Spirit may not be the best disc stat, but aslong as the only +spi gems you are using are the +int & +spi greens for blue sockets then I don't really see a problem. Spirit still remains semi useful for regen.

    I gem for Haste and Intellect. I use Spell Power + Intellect in red socks and Intellect + Spirit in blue sockets. It works well for both specs.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  9. #9

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    Peace, you say you're gemming Intellect and haste, but they're both yellow so they have conflicts. It's about what priorities you should be using at that time.

    And why would you be using Seer's as a green gem, when Purified or Royal (depending on spec) would be so much better? Contrary to popular belief, output matters.

    If you were to gem for both, considering the regen cap being a little different, you could probably get away with:
    Red: Runed (+SP)
    Yellow: Reckless (SP/Haste)
    Blue: Purified (SP/Spirit)

    It gives a bit of regen for Holy that is negligible for Discipline, but Spell Power across the board affects both specs.

    At this state in the game, there's not a chance you should even waste a second gemming Intellect. It's not that it's bad, but there are better alternatives when the current fight meta is 6 minutes (8 1/2 for Putricide, but bring a potion for crying out loud).
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  10. #10

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    At this state in the game, there's not a chance you should even waste a second gemming Intellect. It's not that it's bad, but there are better alternatives when the current fight meta is 6 minutes (8 1/2 for Putricide, but bring a potion for crying out loud).
    If you're using a low-spirit set with very high haste (1000+) as Holy, then Int can be your best bet on gemming due to your ability to consume mana and the soft caps involved with haste (yes, there are soft caps as Holy :P).

    Just don't gem Int for Disc. That's retarded.

  11. #11

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelesti
    Peace, you say you're gemming Intellect and haste, but they're both yellow so they have conflicts. It's about what priorities you should be using at that time.
    Well exactly pretty much. I should have worded better but I gem for haste or intellect, depending on what my overall stats are looking like at that time. Also as holy I have not yet reached a point where I can go all out and not burn mana quickly, so until then i consider regen valuable. Intellect and Haste are good for disc also, well that is my understanding.
    "If you look out of the window as a human being, at nature, all of nature is unconditionally and absolutely beautiful wherever it is. Whether it's a jungle. Whether it's a desert. Whether it's the Arctic wastes. Or even your own back garden. The only ugly things you will ever see when you look out of the window are things made by man." - Stephen Fry

  12. #12

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    I love how people continue to perpetuate the fallacy that you need to gem Intellect for discipline. This could not be further from the truth. There seems to be a decent bit of misinformation on this thread, so allow me to address these points:

    1) Intellect is not worth gemming as disc, period. It's arguably not worth gemming as holy, but certainly will help you more as holy than disc. If you are having serious mana issues as disc, you are probably not playing correctly, or perhaps you're not cycling your mana cooldowns correctly. Remember that if you are a serious min/maxer you should include Mana Potions in your regen model. Your goal should be to get close to 0 mana at the end of the fight without hitting it before. If you're gemming regen and you end a fight with full mana, it's time to gem for throughput.

    Additionally, at any decent gear level, the intellect on gear scales so high that you should be getting amazing returns from replenishment, lowering the need for gemming int.

    2) You DO NOT need a full spirit set to play holy. While spirit is a desirable stat as holy, that should NOT dissuade you from using non-spirit pieces. A fine example of this is the Meteor Chaser's Raiment from Frost Emblems. It is still a robe with excellent stats for holy, despite having no spirit. The same goes for Leggings of Woven Death, the crafted legs. Remember, so long as you're not going OOM, increasing your throughput should be your ultimate goal.

    Admittedly, i am one of those priests who uses the same gear for holy and disc. my gear is generally chosen based on what stats i find desirable for disc, but gemmed more neutrally (example, see my gloves. If i raided solely as disc that'd be 2x Runed) primarily because my intellect levels are so high just from my iLevel, that replenishment gives me enough regen to go the length of fights. If the Lich King encounter ends up being 6+ uninterrupted minutes of combat, i might have to reconsider, but now, even with a low healer count on some of the more healing intensive fights, i don't go OOM as holy with gear that is itemized more towards disc. I end up low in mana, after using all 3 cooldowns sometimes, but i don't go oom. This should be your goal.

    In short: gem for throughput, it helps you in both specs.

  13. #13

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    If you must use the same gear for both specs, then yes, throughput is the best choice. However, if you are min/maxing and trying to raid with as few healers as possible, you won't be optimally effective.

    For Disc, once you have ~245+ gear, you should not need to gear for regen at all, except for maybe Insightful meta. Disc is inherently a very mana efficient spec but lacks throughput, so your gear should compensate accordingly.

    For Holy, it is fundamentally the opposite. It's a high throughput tree but you can burn through mana very quickly. Using spiritless gear will boost your throughput, but you will become addicted to innervates.

    You can play the middle of the road and do some spirit and some throughput. And be OK in both specs. It depends what your expectations are.

  14. #14

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    Quote Originally Posted by cruxxy
    If you must use the same gear for both specs, then yes, throughput is the best choice. However, if you are min/maxing and trying to raid with as few healers as possible, you won't be optimally effective.

    For Disc, once you have ~245+ gear, you should not need to gear for regen at all, except for maybe Insightful meta. Disc is inherently a very mana efficient spec but lacks throughput, so your gear should compensate accordingly.

    For Holy, it is fundamentally the opposite. It's a high throughput tree but you can burn through mana very quickly. Using spiritless gear will boost your throughput, but you will become addicted to innervates.

    You can play the middle of the road and do some spirit and some throughput. And be OK in both specs. It depends what your expectations are.
    That is absolutely untrue. Chances are if you are holy and cannot go entire fights you are either inappropriately managing your CDs (example hymning when you don't have replen up, not innerfocusing every CD, not potting, etc) or your guild takes a disproportionately long amount of time to kill bosses (generally not that case thanks to enrage timers).

    Presently there are no fights that are both long, and healing intensive. Blood-Queen is healing intensive, but is a short fight. towards the end you hardly have to heal with everyone having the vampiric frenzy buff. None of the other fights are remotely healing intensive, and we do them with 5 healers, something which i would assume to be BELOW the average. If you are having mana issues as holy to the point where you need to gem regen your other healers either have to pick up the slack or you have to more efficiently manage your cooldowns.

    EDIT: for both my above statements, i am assuming an average item level of ~245. Obviously the better your gear gets, the easier it is to go entire fights, at my gear-level as holy i can skip using mana pots 99% of the time, and usually skip hymning, unless somebody else needs it. If your gear is worse than 245, you may need to gem some regen. I NEVER receive innervates, those are reserved for arcane mages or pallies.

  15. #15

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    In an optimal scenario where you literally raided 50/50 holy/disc I would say this.

    Pick up as much haste/crit pieces as possible and simply gem SP/Int in pretty much every slot, ignoring any socket bonus below 7.

    The purpose for this is that you would make up for the lost spirit/sp from spiritual guidance and a lack of regen from spirit (not that we spend any real amount of time in the OO5SR even as holy) and allows you to regain a lot of passive regen through a heavy mana pool and the help of replenishment.

    Although SP/Int gemming is not optimal for disc, it is also not the most painful thing in the world. It increases your crit and HPM at the sacrifice of a slight HPS loss for disc.

    In a perfect world though, you would have off sets for both specs and have no crossover of SP/Spirit or SP/Haste gems in your disc set, and vice versa with pure SP in holy set. Alas, a perfect world.

    Hope this helps.

  16. #16

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    This post has confused me more than helped me. I'm in the same situation as the OP.

    It has been mentioned that you shouldn't, ever, gem Intellect, and it has been mentioned you should. When looking at Priests from high-ranking guilds, then it's both scenarios. Some go Haste / SP, others go Spell Power / Int. So I think it's more like, gem Int / SP / Spirit till you don't run out of mana, then Haste / SP.

  17. #17
    Scarab Lord Izenhart's Avatar
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    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    Just go for haste+crit without regen stats and you're fine.

    As long as you've the mana for it

  18. #18

    Re: Disc Stats vs. Holy Stats for using Both Specs

    generally aim for 30k mana fully raid buffed, then switch int gems to sp/haste ones.

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