Going back to only 10 or only 25 man Raid

[Yazus]

I had this idea lately...

Instead of having one content aviable for both 10 and 25 man, I'd like to have:

1) Some rads that are only 10 mans (like Karazan was), which serves to gear up new-raiders and also drop badges
2) Some raids that are only 25 mans, which are more oriented into story progression, and drops high tier-badges.

So people that are fresh 85, would start doing 5-Man Heroics, then move up to 10 mans and then move up to 25 mans. After this they can also move to 25 man heroics.

Also, there would be no 10 man heroics, because I think no one really do them... they just move up on 25 mans.

What do you think? Yes, it would be "harder" or "slower" to gear up alts or your character, but it would be more appropriate than jumping from 5 mans to ICC25. An intermediate passage would be 10 mans. Every new 25 man content when relased, also have its 10 man content related (ICC had 5 Mans, and 25 Mans, they could have added a 10Man related to the ICC story following my idea), so Blizzard can continue with their "progression" strategy (you jump directly to the new content):

At the moment its 5Man Heroics Drop Badges -> Get Tier -> 10Man Content of the same raid, 25 man content of the same raid.
I think it would be better and nicer if 5 Man Drop Low Badges/Epics -> 10 Man content of a raid -> Get High Badges/Low Version of Tier -> 25 Man raid High Lvl Epics/Tier.

It would require more work and effort from Blizzard, but I'm sure that if they drop those stupid 1 Man bosses raids/Archivon like style instances that are a real slap in the face to the WoW Community as they are really wasted piece of lore like Malygos or serve nothing but to easily gear up randooms and put some more effort in less but longer and better 25mans and also NEW 10 mans, I'd be happier.

What do you think?

[Rusher]

no

couldn't agree more

[MerinPally]

This would just be going back to the old system they used in BC, and removing the whole thing they did in WOTLK. The reason they added the raid setting for 10/25, is that some people wanted to raid, yet couldn't get into a 25 man guild, so got stuck at 10 mans and bored. I was 1 of those people and i loved it when wOTLK came out, but now im in a guild that can actually manage 25 mans, it doesn't bother me too much.

If you did this, all that would happen is we would go back to the old thing of guilds recruiting, clearing 10 mans, not moving onto 25 mans, and we back at the same problem we had in BC.

The issue is that people get stuck sometimes and cannot get over the gap form 10 mans to 25 mans, mainly because of numbers of people and their raiding times, not because they are undergeared.

I beg blizzard to never revert back to the old BC system, as i have m8s who want to raid the content but cannot get the numbers together, or do not want the stress of having to cope with 24 idiots running in circles.

[quiz]

1x10 man (Karazhan) is enough to start with. First weeks it was VOA, OS, Naxx. Now we have 6x10 and 6x25 :S It has become way to easy to gear up by to many raids and badges ofcourse.

[MerinPally]

1x10 man (Karazhan) is enough. First weeks it was VOA, OS, Naxx. Now we have 6x10 and 6x25 :S It has become way to easy to gear up by to many raids and badges ofcourse.

Yes but don't forget Blizzard is a commercial company and wants to make more money, and by letting everyone see the content they get more subscribers = more money, and lots of people quit when they got stuck in that gap when they were better than 10 man raiding yet couldn't go up a step to 25 mans. Less people they have quitting better it is for them, thats 1 of the reasons why they put the system into the game in the first place, so that people didn't get bored and go to other games by other companies

[Chaudster]

It depends if you want to farm one instance 4 times.

Toc Normal 10 man
Toc Normal 25 man
Toc HC 10 man
ToC HC 25 man

Or Farm a variety of unique raids once -

Karazhan / Zulaman / BT / Sunwell


Personally i favour unique variety, but there are some boring people who dont like exploring new things and would rather farm the familiar over and over again because they are scared of trying something new.

These people later in life have boring 9-5 jobs and come home to sit in front of the TV

[Swaagie]

2OP: Wow has a history before you started playing, perhaps check that out first...

[Delekth]

Also, there would be no 10 man heroics, because I think no one really do them... they just move up on 25 mans.

wat?

[Visix]

I can't think of a single reason, from a game designer's point of view nor a consumer's point of view, to make the game less accessible.

During Vanilla, only the hardcore or the extremely patient could hope to get into a raid, and only the hardcore could actually see any content beyond Ragnaros. During BC, the gap was lessened, and a lot more people got to see most of the content. But, Blizzard still put in hundreds of man hours to complete dungeons that maybe 30%(being generous here) of the subscribers got to see. In WOTLK, a lot more people get to experience a lot more dungeon content, and the extreme-raiders get to have the best gear.

The 10-man = Noobs, 25-man = Raiding-Gods, thing that went on in the last couple of tiers in Burning Crusade was a bad idea when it first came out, and it is still a bad idea.

[Beetlejuice]

So what you are asking for is having only half as many raids while forcing big guilds to split their raid groups to gear up on 10 mans while excluding small guilds from any lore based raids and good equipment?

Always amazes me how ppl can honestly complain about having options. In case you didn't realize, options are optional. If you don't like them, don't take them. It is really that easy.

[vesseblah]

I had this idea lately...

What do you think?

Honestly? I think person who comes up with this bright idea is either a moron or a troll.

TBC did that and failed royally. End result was that the better guilds who could do 25-mans had 9 raids to clear all the way from Karazhan to Sunwell and they bitched all along the way how easy Kara and ZA was that were tuned for the 10-man guilds. On the side the small guilds who couldn't do 25's had only 2 raids, and ran out of content ten times faster.

Doing separate instances in two sizes and in equal amounts would double the amount of time needed for blizz to actually produce pve content, which would double the time between expansions and patches which would lead to even more whining when it again takes 9 months to release next patch with 2 more instances, where 25-man guilds faceroll the 10-man version in half day and whine & bitch how easy it is, and then get to the 25-man content while 10-man guilds get only one instance.

[Spartanoble]

u forgot the 10 man heroics

[Chaudster]

10 man heroics would be a major possibility imo, especially through the use of the lfg system.

DPS'ers already have long wait times through shortage of tanks and healers. 1 tank, 1 healer and 8 dpser's makes perfect sense for heroics for queue times.

I love the idea

[AnotherPaladin]

I like the system how it is now. It lets the casuals see the content that blizz worked hard on, and it lets the elitists get their super uber epic drakes from the achievments.

[ComputerNerd]

So what you are asking for is having only half as many raids while forcing big guilds to split their raid groups to gear up on 10 mans while excluding small guilds from any lore based raids and good equipment?

Always amazes me how ppl can honestly complain about having options. In case you didn't realize, options are optional. If you don't like them, don't take them. It is really that easy.

What they want is a return to classic where they had their content which us mere mortals did not see until we reached 10 or 20 levels later and then went back in a raid half or quarter of the size and practically faceroll it.

It is more accessible than ever and that design philosphy is here to stay, like it or not.

[ScorchHellfire]

I had this idea lately...

Instead of having one content aviable for both 10 and 25 man, I'd like to have:

1) Some rads that are only 10 mans (like Karazan was), which serves to gear up new-raiders and also drop badges
2) Some raids that are only 25 mans, which are more oriented into story progression, and drops high tier-badges.

So people that are fresh 85, would start doing 5-Man Heroics, then move up to 10 mans and then move up to 25 mans. After this they can also move to 25 man heroics.

Also, there would be no 10 man heroics, because I think no one really do them... they just move up on 25 mans.

What do you think? Yes, it would be "harder" or "slower" to gear up alts or your character, but it would be more appropriate than jumping from 5 mans to ICC25. An intermediate passage would be 10 mans. Every new 25 man content when relased, also have its 10 man content related (ICC had 5 Mans, and 25 Mans, they could have added a 10Man related to the ICC story following my idea), so Blizzard can continue with their "progression" strategy (you jump directly to the new content):

At the moment its 5Man Heroics Drop Badges -> Get Tier -> 10Man Content of the same raid, 25 man content of the same raid.
I think it would be better and nicer if 5 Man Drop Low Badges/Epics -> 10 Man content of a raid -> Get High Badges/Low Version of Tier -> 25 Man raid High Lvl Epics/Tier.

It would require more work and effort from Blizzard, but I'm sure that if they drop those stupid 1 Man bosses raids/Archivon like style instances that are a real slap in the face to the WoW Community as they are really wasted piece of lore like Malygos or serve nothing but to easily gear up randooms and put some more effort in less but longer and better 25mans and also NEW 10 mans, I'd be happier.

What do you think?

They already said they will not go back to the BC system... they like people being able to chose the progression path they want... also more players enjoy 10 mans over 25 than not so if anything they would go to just 10 mans only for everything... although I personally think they should compromise and do 15 man raids for everything...

[nikat]

They already said they will not go back to the BC system... they like people being able to chose the progression path they want... also more players enjoy 10 mans over 25 than not so if anything they would go to just 10 mans only for everything... although I personally think they should compromise and do 15 man raids for everything...

15 man's wouldn't be bad.

To the OP.

I really think you underestimate the number of strict 10 man guilds out there, and how they like raiding.

We love doing heroic 10 man content and for the most part strive to complete it in 10 man gear. This is the progression path we as players like, and not because we don't like challenges, but because we are on a server where finding 25 people that share our intrests, would mesh well, ect.. is pretty much impossible.