Thread: [Music] Metal

  1. #3021
    Warchief rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nektar View Post
    It really depends on what context essential is used in. Essential, as in influential to the genre as a whole or essential as in must be heard by all metal fans? The former is, imo, extremely limiting, the list will be pretty short and let's be honest here, influential bands are not always the best at what they do. The latter is more interesting but also definitely subjective. If we were to use the poll popular bands will have a big advantage, not a bad thing per se, but after having seen some peoples taste I fear the list would look something like this:

    Metallica - St. Anger
    Dragonforce - Inhuman Rampage
    Dimmu Borgir - Abrahadabra
    Korn - Follow the Leader

    Another problem I see with using a poll would be that there is no way of knowing who votes for what. I don't want some power metal fan down voting "Altar of Madness" or "A Blaze in the Northern Sky" just because they don't like death metal or black metal.
    As far as "essential" metal albums go, korn and dragonforce are 2 of the last bands I would consider suggesting to somebody,

  2. #3022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    Not particularly. Those same keyboard lines were already being done by Arcturus and Dimmu Borgir. Or, if you wish, Beethoven.
    Not necessarily in the same way or in the same context. Arcturus and even DB (although DB less, as some keyboard lines in Stormblast were main melody lines pretty much) used those things for atmospheric purposes. And Beethoven didn't play metal.

    But since they are not a grim true cult frostbitten band and they "sold out" before the last three albums, I don't expect you to see it, but they WERE an influence for many many bands.

    But whatever, I don't think any list like that is good anyways since as you said yourself before, it is way too subjective so /careface.
    Last edited by Uldreth; 2012-03-31 at 12:07 PM.
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  3. #3023
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    As far as "essential" metal albums go, korn and dragonforce are 2 of the last bands I would consider suggesting to somebody,
    +1 for reading comprehension. That would be why he put them in his post

    @ Uldreth - I own their first CD. It's not like I have zero idea of where they came from. Even so, the keyboard melodies were largely taken directly from Arcturus (or, if you wish, Winds).

  4. #3024
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post

    @ Uldreth - I own their first CD. It's not like I have zero idea of where they came from. Even so, the keyboard melodies were largely taken directly from Arcturus (or, if you wish, Winds).
    Dunno if you said this before or after my edit but meh, I don't hear much similiarities in the purpose of synths in Something Wild and Aspera Hiems Symphonia.

    With that said I am not sure if it is relevant anyways, as bands like Norther or Wintersun don't really build on the Arcturus-type synth playing but on the CoB-type synth playing.
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  5. #3025
    Quote Originally Posted by rederoin View Post
    As far as "essential" metal albums go, korn and dragonforce are 2 of the last bands I would consider suggesting to somebody,
    Dragonforce IS essential power metal imo... NOBODY does it better than them in that genre, and beleive me I've looked into it a great deal

    Especially now , they have a new better singer & more varied songs

    I get the feeling some people seem to have some idea that Obscure > Mainstream but for no actual/valid reasons. No. It does not make you cooler to listen to bands nobody has ever heard of.
    Last edited by WaitingforMoP; 2012-03-31 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #3026
    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingforMoP View Post
    <snip>
    I get the feeling some people seem to have some idea that Obscure > Mainstream but for no actual/valid reasons. No. It does not make you cooler to listen to bands nobody has ever heard of.
    I'm really curious how you came to that conclusion.

  7. #3027
    Just actually found this thread, and I'm glad I did. Chances are I can find some metalcore fans here, so I thought I'd share a pretty good upcoming band. If anyone is interested, look up Adestria and listen to Outsiders. Their CD just came out on 3-26-12, and it's entitled Chapters.

    Technically once you've heard one metalcore band, you've heard em all, but I'm a fan of the genre so yeah, that's that.

    Here's a link to the suggested song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8Dq7JJJ1wI

  8. #3028
    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingforMoP View Post
    Dragonforce IS essential power metal imo... NOBODY does it better than them in that genre, and beleive me I've looked into it a great deal
    Wat. I think this single handedly shows why making an "essential Metal Albums" thread would just not work.

    However, if just the OP determines what should and shouldn't be on the list then its going to become inherently biased to the tastes of the OP. But if everybody has a say then the "essential Metal Albums" thread just becomes the "Metal Albums" thread. I can't think of any fair method unless as Duilliath said to somehow determine what is and isn't influential on a specific genre or sub-genre, but different people will always have their own opinions...

    I feel like I should post something instead of just talking
    Last edited by Kreyzor; 2012-03-31 at 05:51 PM.

  9. #3029
    Quote Originally Posted by nektar View Post
    I'm really curious how you came to that conclusion.
    I just see alot of people with that mentality around the internet, here... youtube... other sites, everywhere really. Its an observation not a conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post
    A bad example would be Children of Bodom.
    ............. I hope you're just saying COB is not "Essential" in your opinion and not calling them bad.

    If you dislike COB well.... then all of your opinions are officially dead to me
    Last edited by WaitingforMoP; 2012-03-31 at 10:25 PM.

  10. #3030
    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingforMoP View Post
    I just see alot of people with that mentality around the internet, here... youtube... other sites, everywhere really. Its an observation not a conclusion.



    ............. I hope you're just saying COB is not "Essential" in your opinion and not calling them bad.

    If you dislike COB well.... then all of your opinions are officially dead to me
    There's nothing wrong with disliking a band, even if it's lauded over within the metal community. I, myself, find them boring. Much the same way I don't really dig Amon Amarth either. /shrugs

    Oh, and Dragonforce is quite possibly one of the worst bands I've ever seen live.
    Last edited by nbm02ss; 2012-03-31 at 10:38 PM.

  11. #3031
    Quote Originally Posted by nbm02ss View Post
    There's nothing wrong with disliking a band, even if it's lauded over within the metal community. I, myself, find them boring. Much the same way I don't really dig Amon Amarth either. /shrugs

    Oh, and Dragonforce is quite possibly one of the worst bands I've ever seen live.
    Dragonforce writes stuff that puts them in over their (or really anyone else if they tried to play its) head cause its so fast, and they are really enthusiastic about getting drunk... I can't say I blame them for doing sloppy jobs live, but studio its great imo

  12. #3032
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingforMoP View Post
    Dragonforce writes stuff that puts them in over their (or really anyone else if they tried to play its) head cause its so fast, and they are really enthusiastic about getting drunk... I can't say I blame them for doing sloppy jobs live, but studio its great imo
    Their (Dragonforce) songwriting is very repetetive however.

    And the funny thing is I really don't mind repetition (SPELLINGZ?????) at all so when it gets so repetetive it bothers me then you know there is something stinky there.

    DF is way too cheesy, self repeating and pointless for my taste. But then again I dislike the vast majority of EU power metal.
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  13. #3033
    Quote Originally Posted by Uldreth View Post
    Their (Dragonforce) songwriting is very repetetive however.

    And the funny thing is I really don't mind repetition (SPELLINGZ?????) at all so when it gets so repetetive it bothers me then you know there is something stinky there.

    DF is way too cheesy, self repeating and pointless for my taste. But then again I dislike the vast majority of EU power metal.
    They are really trying on their new album to not be redundant, and they have a new singer now. So when the new album drops in a few weeks you could give them another chance. They are improving.

  14. #3034
    Fluffy Kitten Badpaladin's Avatar
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    I would say an essential album is one that showcases its genre(s) very well while being, generally speaking, a good or great album.

    If you listen to ISIS - Panopticon, you'll get a pretty good idea about what Post-Metal sounds like. If you listen to Opeth - Blackwater Park, you'll get a good understanding of what Progressive Death can sound like (and folk interludes). If you listen to Underoath - Define the Great Line, you'll get a good idea about what modern Metalcore sounds like.

    If you were to listen to one of Neurosis' more experimental albums, !T.O.O.D.! - Pod vladou bice, or SikTh you're not going to get a great understanding of those albums' genres from the standpoint of a "new" listener.
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  15. #3035
    Quote Originally Posted by Badpaladin View Post
    I would say an essential album is one that showcases its genre(s) very well while being, generally speaking, a good or great album.

    If you listen to ISIS - Panopticon, you'll get a pretty good idea about what Post-Metal sounds like. If you listen to Opeth - Blackwater Park, you'll get a good understanding of what Progressive Death can sound like (and folk interludes). If you listen to Underoath - Define the Great Line, you'll get a good idea about what modern Metalcore sounds like.

    If you were to listen to one of Neurosis' more experimental albums, !T.O.O.D.! - Pod vladou bice, or SikTh you're not going to get a great understanding of those albums' genres from the standpoint of a "new" listener.
    This is all makes perfectly logical sense, and I agree with this, but I just think the real question is who and how would one come to a final conclusion about what deserves to represent its genre?

  16. #3036
    Lol, this scared me for a second: http://www.metal-archives.com/

  17. #3037
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WaitingforMoP View Post
    I just see alot of people with that mentality around the internet, here... youtube... other sites, everywhere really. Its an observation not a conclusion.



    ............. I hope you're just saying COB is not "Essential" in your opinion and not calling them bad.

    If you dislike COB well.... then all of your opinions are officially dead to me
    Not bad. Just boring. And I honestly do not care much if people agree with my opinions. You're more than welcome to have a different one, as is clear you have. Every single album they toned down in extremity and became more bland and accessible. They went for a completely different route than I enjoy and apparently found a fanbase with it. I find their albums and their behaviour appalling, so I won't listen to it.

    Similarly, I find Dragonforce to be repetitive. I enjoyed the Helloween-on-speed feel for a tiny bit, but it really feels like most of the songs they have are just a rehash. There's very few bands that stay interesting to me despite being repetitive.

  18. #3038
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duilliath View Post

    Similarly, I find Dragonforce to be repetitive. I enjoyed the Helloween-on-speed feel for a tiny bit, but it really feels like most of the songs they have are just a rehash.
    Yeah I agree with this. At first I was like, whoa whoa, power metal that's fast, at least somewhat technical and riff based instead of having that shit boring "epic" wankery?! Gief! But then I realised they have like 3 songs and the rest is those three with absolutely minimal variations with tons of cheese and nonsensical lyrics.

    I still think if they started building on what you said as "Helloween-on-speed" but varied songwriting a bit and made it more "serious", it'd be a great power metal band but as they are now, aside from occasional fun listens they just bore me.
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  19. #3039
    Immortal Duilliath's Avatar
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    Sidenote, this entirely discussion and back n forth talk demonstrates why an 'essential' metal thread would be exceedingly hard to put together.

  20. #3040
    Quote Originally Posted by nektar View Post
    Lol, this scared me for a second: http://www.metal-archives.com/
    Damn lol I thought the same thing for about a minute, then I clicked it

    Really good stuff, only discovered this fairly recently

    Edit: I just realized how similar this sounds like the album Symbolic in my opinion, just sort of hit me
    Last edited by Kreyzor; 2012-04-01 at 02:43 PM.

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