Feral and Moonkin

[dudedduu]

What spec do you play and how are you doing on the meters?
How large would you say the the diffrence between the two specs is?
How hard does the ferals think their rotation is under pressure? Or are you just using Feral by Night?

[Deleted]

I would say that Feral is probably a tad more difficult to play compared to moonkins. The age old cat rotation chart is a good example of how chaotic feral DPS can be. However, as with most rotations, as soon as you get it down it shouldn't be a problem.

As for damage comparasson, i really wouldn't know. We haven't raided with a feral in ages, but they do competative damage - as does moonkins. What it really comes down to is what you see yourself doing. You shouldn't pick a spec because of the damage it does - you should pick a spec that you enjoy playing. If you want to be melee, go cat. If you want to be ranged, roll a warlo... be a moonkin.

The best tip anyone can give you is to try out both

[Fano7]

I would say that Feral is probably a tad more difficult to play compared to moonkins. The age old cat rotation chart is a good example of how chaotic feral DPS can be. However, as with most rotations, as soon as you get it down it shouldn't be a problem.

As for damage comparasson, i really wouldn't know. We haven't raided with a feral in ages, but they do competative damage - as does moonkins. What it really comes down to is what you see yourself doing. You shouldn't pick a spec because of the damage it does - you should pick a spec that you enjoy playing. If you want to be melee, go cat. If you want to be ranged, roll a warlo... be a moonkin.

The best tip anyone can give you is to try out both

Feral is much more difficult to play than any other spec (other than maybe Enhancement), especially compared to Moonkins. This is the actual cat rotation chart. It isn't actually a rotation though, and it still requires a lot of attention even if you play feral a lot.

As for damage comparison, Feral blows Moonkin's out of the water most of the time. Feral does compatitive damage, but is a little behind most classes (but it is still viable). I do agree you should choose your spec you enjoy playing. Personally, I like doing more damage, but you might like being ranged better.

[Deleted]

I think you should be careful to not be biased due to playing with subpar moonkins. People are generally struggling with moonkins as well, but this is often due to missing knowledge on caps, how to do a proper rotation and the like. Moonkins are excellent damage, and is just as viable as ferals are

[Fano7]

I think you should be careful to not be biased due to playing with subpar moonkins. People are generally struggling with moonkins as well, but this is often due to missing knowledge on caps, how to do a proper rotation and the like. Moonkins are excellent damage, and is just as viable as ferals are

Most WoL (or other websites that track boss kills) show Moonkin's below Feral's. It's not skill, it's just because they scale horribly. The reach the soft haste cap considerably fast, and are approaching the soft crit cap rapidly in ICC as well. Moonkin's are viable, but Feral does more dps.

[Deleted]

And yet, most of the people coming here with problems on DPS are seeing just that because of poor cap management, shabby rotations and a general lack of knowledge of their class.

Your comment "Feral does compatitive damage, but is a little behind most classes" is just the same for moonkins in most situations

[Woven]

And yet, most of the people coming here with problems on DPS are seeing just that because of poor cap management, shabby rotations and a general lack of knowledge of their class.

Your comment "Feral does compatitive damage, but is a little behind most classes" is just the same for moonkins in most situations

I'd second his statement. Not only backed with WoL but also with theorycraft that moonkins suffer scaling problems far more strongly than cat. The higher the gear level, with the current setup, the further moonkin drops away from cat. For difficult raiding if you can do it, I'd go cat for that reason. You and your raid will suffer less for it.

[Spensel]

I've raided with both, but only feral recently. Personally, I prefer Feral DPS, once you get the priority list down and using helpful add-ons like FBN its easy to top meters ;D . I also find the harder rotation, if you can even call it that, more fun to play.

[Sunfyre]

I think you should be careful to not be biased due to playing with subpar moonkins. People are generally struggling with moonkins as well, but this is often due to missing knowledge on caps, how to do a proper rotation and the like. Moonkins are excellent damage, and is just as viable as ferals are

And again. You're wrong.

Find consistent parses of top 100 guilds that show balance druids consistently higher then feral druids, and I'll believe you.

[Aluana]

And again. You're wrong.

Find consistent parses of top 100 guilds that show balance druids consistently higher then feral druids, and I'll believe you.

you cannot compare feral and moonkin dps like that, it is impossible due to a range of different factors... melee barely have to move during the majority of bosses in ICC, and when they do feral has the feral leap thingy whereas moonkins scale horribly with movement fights but if you can restrict that movement to barely anything then they're a lot better off...

another reason you cannot compare them is because of the gear, you cannot accurately get a feral and moonkin in identical gear to compare dps in exactly the same situation with exactly the same buffs and exactly the same skill levels... ever...

[Deleted]

Do you reckon that Dudedduu is gunning to join Ensidia? The top guilds, while i respect their vigor, are in no way a good basis for comparing DPS.

You are even asking us to compare a caster spec to a melee spec, when you know that most of the fights we face these days have excessive movement, which is sure to put a dent in any caster damage.

I never really said that moonkins = ferals. I said that they were comparable, and i said that his words "does compatitive damage, but is a little behind most classes" is just the same for moonkins in many cases. Obviously, we don't go out and compare casters to melee - thats like comparing healers to tanks.

EDIT: Fixed

[Aluana]

You are even asking us to compare a caster spec to a meleeDPS spec, when you know that most of the fights we face these days have excessive movement, which is sure to put a dent in any caster damage.

fixt in bold

[Sunfyre]

Do you reckon that Dudedduu is gunning to join Ensidia? The top guilds, while i respect their vigor, are in no way a good basis for comparing DPS.

You are even asking us to compare a caster spec to a melee spec, when you know that most of the fights we face these days have excessive movement, which is sure to put a dent in any caster damage.

I never really said that moonkins = ferals. I said that they were comparable, and i said that his words "does compatitive damage, but is a little behind most classes" is just the same for moonkins in many cases. Obviously, we don't go out and compare casters to melee - thats like comparing healers to tanks.

EDIT: Fixed

People usually come here wanting relevant information for relevant zones. People don't usually come here asking for DPS rotations for Tier 7 and Naxxramas. That being said, Icecrown Citadel is the standard for comparison, and balance druids don't hold a candle to feral druids in most fights. The only one I've been able to top a feral in is Lana'thel, when we both got bit at the same time.

[getefix]

People usually come here wanting relevant information for relevant zones. People don't usually come here asking for DPS rotations for Tier 7 and Naxxramas. That being said, Icecrown Citadel is the standard for comparison, and balance druids don't hold a candle to feral druids in most fights. The only one I've been able to top a feral in is Lana'thel, when we both got bit at the same time.

Benchmark tests are only benchmark tests when the players being compared have the same fight mechanics involved. If a boomkin can be allowed to skip adds on saurfang, or can stand on top of the melee for festergut, then you can compare a feral to a melee for the "stand and nuke" fights.

Either way, I find that skilled moonkins and skilled ferals are both few and far between, thus making it very hard for me to compare myself to a properly played moonkin.

[teddabear]

Moonkins definitely have some issues. It looks like Princes is the only fight where they are superior to Feral. Things aren't so hot for Ferals either though.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/rank/classrank/9

Moonkins are getting some buffs tomorrow but probably less than they need. I believe the concensus is the mechanics of Eclipse just don't work well on your average boss fight. On the other hand from a buff standpoint Moonkins are more desirable than Feral. The only important Feral buff is also brought by Fury Warriors which are doing much better than Feral and will almost assuredly continue to scale great.

[Deleted]

People usually come here wanting relevant information for relevant zones. People don't usually come here asking for DPS rotations for Tier 7 and Naxxramas. That being said, Icecrown Citadel is the standard for comparison, and balance druids don't hold a candle to feral druids in most fights. The only one I've been able to top a feral in is Lana'thel, when we both got bit at the same time.

If a moonkin, or any caster for that matter, is usually comparable on damage, but is falling behind because of the mechanics of the fight, then yes, id still say its comparable. Festergut is supposed to be a bastard for casters (well, except mages. Damn you, mages!). If the DPS differences can largely be accounted for due to fight mechanics, then i'd say everything is fine.

Consider if a moonkin should be able to be on par with melee on a fight like Festergut. Imagine how much damage they would then do if they were NOT on Festergut.

[Woven]

If a moonkin, or any caster for that matter, is usually comparable on damage, but is falling behind because of the mechanics of the fight, then yes, id still say its comparable. Festergut is supposed to be a bastard for casters (well, except mages. Damn you, mages!). If the DPS differences can largely be accounted for due to fight mechanics, then i'd say everything is fine.

Consider if a moonkin should be able to be on par with melee on a fight like Festergut. Imagine how much damage they would then do if they were NOT on Festergut.

This simply outlines his point again. Festergut is a current fight so it is significant. It's useless to say that they're good on x type of fight when there is one instance of x type of fight where moonkins are better than cats, when the rest of the fights are y type fights where cats are better than moonkins. Right now. The OP is better off going cat if they can do the rotation if maximum dps is the goal.

[Deleted]

You missed the point completely. The fight is designed to put a lot of stress on the melee DPS. If all classes were equal on a fight like Festergut, then there would be a massive imbalance on fights that didn't hinder casters in general.

He "shouldn't" go either moonkin or cat. He should pick whatever playstyle he wishes to play, as both will be able to perform as they are designed to do.

[teddabear]

This is too much of an apples and oranges comparison as was pointed out, melee and caster mechanics are often far different depending on the Boss. Also I doubt there are many Druids that switch back and forth between Moonkin and Feral because of the gear differences. If your trying to make a point that Moonkins are not where they should be you should be comparing to Mages and Shadow Priests.

[Deos]

Feral has a lot higher skill cap and if(huge "IF" here) mastered will do a ton more damage than moonkin, this is true. Like, im doing about 11k single target sustainable dps and even on princes i beat all our moonkins with 8k dps vs their 7kish. With 4-pc T10 feral dots help a lot to smoothen out targets switching penalty, also the mobility is unmatched, charge, high running speed, dash, yellow damage bias meaning that losing autoattack uptime doesnt hurt feral as much as other melee etc..

I do agree that the thread is pointless though.. People either born melee or born caster, it's in the very mindset. You can't excel in both, not to mention have the topmost gear for both specs which is required to be somewhat competitive in ICC. Stick with your spec and do your best, there is no shortcut to the top of the meters, if you were a moonkin you wont do more damage as feral. All you need to worry about it being viable and executing strategy perfectly, not failing to stupid sh*t and dying, that's what really important for raiding nowadays.

PS: no, ferals dont fall behind "most other classes", you do. Like i said the skill cap is very high, work on your rotation and be very smart and fast about energy management strategy and how you can exploit each fight's possibilities.