Lich King World First Kill by Ensidia

[Thacks]

I dont agree with what they did at all, but I belive so many people suddenly takeing up engineering might be explained with the new arena season, I dont know if the ones that just learned have teams or not but I cant imagine they would have known about this bug pre-release of the lich king. But once they found out about the bug and continued to exploit insted of just removing the bombs from a set rotation they deserve to have the titles/loot/achv removed and atleast a 1week ban, also their sponsers need to take a good look at the track record of "clever use of game mechanics" that this guild seems to figure out everytime theres a race for an actuall kill that matters in the world (of warcraft). Just my 2 cents, im sure I will get flamed by both sides for defending them in one aspect and trashing them in another aspect in the same post.

As far as I'm aware the taking up EG proof is a rumour. Many people have asked for proof of this rumour yet none has been given.

[Juggernautt]

So who got the world first shadowmourne?

[sevenbug]

Congratulation to them.
Is that "20 gms" were looking at Ensidia at 2 am?

[Marcolow]

Oh the irony of this,this kill is about as impressive as the worlds first no keeper kill. Congrats on your exploit. Oops I mean kill,teehee.

[Doomfree]

I dont agree with what they did at all, but I belive so many people suddenly takeing up engineering might be explained with the new arena season, I dont know if the ones that just learned have teams or not but I cant imagine they would have known about this bug pre-release of the lich king. But once they found out about the bug and continued to exploit insted of just removing the bombs from a set rotation they deserve to have the titles/loot/achv removed and atleast a 1week ban, also their sponsers need to take a good look at the track record of "clever use of game mechanics" that this guild seems to figure out everytime theres a race for an actuall kill that matters in the world (of warcraft). Just my 2 cents, im sure I will get flamed by both sides for defending them in one aspect and trashing them in another aspect in the same post.

Conspiracy - They pay some coder/QA in BZ to left/make these known bug in the encounter so they can get world first?

^ just kidding

[Yuanrang]

Maybe instead of hiding bosses from public testing to "keep them fresh", Blizzard should either work harder on their internal testing or let others.

Agreed.

I can't fathom how a bug such as this would escape Blizzard. There'd eventually be thousands of engineers fighting the Lich King and I'm fairly sure a substantial amount of them would use the Saronite Bombs. The GCD-free damage from it makes it benificial to add in a rotation where you can without any penalty whatsoever, people would use it and Blizzard should've expected it. In fact, judging from the bug that could destroy Wintergrasp gates and the hotfix of that, they should've known there were issues with the charges doing siege damage and at least had it on a "What if..?" list but apparently, the internal testing at Blizzard HQ isn't very sound.

Same goes for the stuns on Anub'arak for that matter. I can understand the bugg on Yogg being harder to catch since it's not as easy as just pressing a given skill randomly but require a setup, but something as simple as using a profession or an ability that makes sense? I do not see how they can miss that, but eh, if they want to released bugged encounters then that's their choice. It does, however, seem natural that they might be better off actually increasing the playtesting or replacing some of the people in the QA section to actually smooth out such flaws.
A whole year's build up and they drop the ball on the one encounter that everyone would focus on? Tad ridiculous isn't it?

[Typhron]

Oh the irony of this,this kill is about as impressive as the worlds first no keeper kill. Congrats on your exploit. Oops I mean kill,teehee.

The irony in this is is that it keeps happening.

Oh, wait, that's not irony. But I really don't feel like dismantling the world's top raiding guild tonight no matter how easy it may seem.

Someone better suited might be up for the task, just not me. Not right now.

[ben-]

The irony in this is is that it keeps happening.

Oh, wait, that's not irony. But I really don't feel like dismantling the world's top raiding guild tonight no matter how easy it may seem.

Your not top if you cheat.

[Cidis]

Your not top if you cheat.

Sure you are. It's like bringing a gun to a knife fight. You will win even if others think you cheated.

Play to win.

[Mojojojo]

I dont agree with what they did at all, but I belive so many people suddenly takeing up engineering might be explained with the new arena season, I dont know if the ones that just learned have teams or not but I cant imagine they would have known about this bug pre-release of the lich king. But once they found out about the bug and continued to exploit insted of just removing the bombs from a set rotation they deserve to have the titles/loot/achv removed and atleast a 1week ban, also their sponsers need to take a good look at the track record of "clever use of game mechanics" that this guild seems to figure out everytime theres a race for an actuall kill that matters in the world (of warcraft). Just my 2 cents, im sure I will get flamed by both sides for defending them in one aspect and trashing them in another aspect in the same post.

Its hard to find whats 'cause a bug, then you did exactly the same thing in the 10man encount and said bug didnt occur. Maybe it was setting down totems at a certain time, maybe it was a warlock portal, maybe it was a mage blinking or maybe the engineering boots changed it?

If you do exactly the same as you have always done, but then a boss suddenly bugs out; your first reaction would be that the boss is bugged. Seeing that this boss has been out just over a day, not many people know its true mechanics(Maybe 10man was bugged and that the platforms were supposed to rebuild, but they didnt in 10man for some reason?[whish we know now isn't true, but at the time there was nothing suggesting it wasn't true]).

Another reason for so many rerolling engineering is because its more favourable to certain spec with ICC gear. Lets talk about specs with ArP, before 3.3 it was hard to hit the cap with gear, so being BS/JCing would give you them extra gems to get close to the gap. Now that ICC gear is out, with alot more ArP, then you dont need these extra gems/gem slots(bearing in mind, these we're the only two profesions boosting ArP afaik), then you can hit the ArP cap with normal gear, so Engineering would be a better profession as it adds other things to your DPS that you can use.

Someone talked about Mek rerolling Engineering; For elemental shamans engineering is a great profession, popping EM + Gloves haste thing is practically a 2nd heroism, bringing LB down to 1 second casts; and mages using this can do the same, proccing all CDs and gloves enchant = mighty DPS boost.

I wish people would use there heads before posting nonsense.

[Fedelesa]

Especially when you look at people who were there for the kill and notice many recently learned engineering. I guess that was just a random coincidence right?

Where are you seeing that they recently learned engineering. I just scrubbed the armory and have not seen anywhere indicating when engineering is learned just that professions achieved on 11/18/2008.

[Vordox]

The thing about this Saronite Bombs/Thermal Sapper.

This "cleans" their innoncense to me.
Does the floor rebuilds JUST where the explosion was, or is it "one bomb in mid repairs ALL floor in the room"?

If it was first, Sorry you cannot say "Oh we didn't know", cause then blowing things up where the boss wasn't is just ...well. Enough said about that.

If second, then it's bug, not a cheat.

[Typhron]

You're not top if you cheat.

That will not stop people from treating them like they are. It won't kill their ego and it won't stop people from treating their word as law.

...I can't say anything else to make that not sound less vindictive.

[ben-]

Where are you seeing that they recently learned engineering. I just scrubbed the armory and have not seen anywhere indicating when engineering is learned just that professions achieved on 11/18/2008.

Cause he was just talking, i dont think its true as i havent seen any evidence posted.

Why does WoW's #1 guild have ads for AION splattered all over their webpage ?

[Fairplay]

I thought the "excuse" was hilarious. Your rogues using Saronite bombs which do 1000 damage that have a minute cooldown is their "usual" rotation. Right Ensidia, right.

[Formless Voice]

Hindsight is always 20/20. There will always be things missed and that is balanced against their desire to keep things out of circulation to add some gravitas to the encounter. The game has lost something by people knowing everything about a fight before they even set foot inside the instance, but to not learn it is to limit yourself.

Blizzard relies on people to advise them of any problems they miss and trusts them not to abuse any issues that arise, they then generally take swift action - as they have in this case - to correct it. There has to be balance and while people like to focus on the negative the fight will be fine when most people get to it.

As others have said the real question is "Did Ensidia know?" if they did they clearly accepted that they were utilising an exploit and should therefore accept any consequences. If they really didnt know well thats what we call an accident and well accidents happen, chalk it up and move on.

As to an earlier posters comments about sponsorship well unless the actions cause negative feedback on the sponsor controversy is actual of benefit as it increases attention whioch is afterall the entire point of sponsorship.

[Asmo]

What I don't understand is why people keep defending Ensidia's decision to press on when they saw that the platform was respawning, which was obviously unintentional. The claim that any top raiding guild would simply keep going in search of a first is unfounded. Any guild looking for a legitimate claim of FIRST! would need to complete an encounter in a clean manner. Use of abilities in an intended manner (spamming Holy Wrath) is one thing, use of abilities that causes the fight to behave in a manner that it clearly should not is another.

Even allowing for that fact that they might not have known exactly what was causing the platform to respawn, they surely had to know that something was. They had completed it on 10M. They knew. To maintain legitimacy, their best recourse would have been to report that something was causing the floor to respawn, sit and wait. Anyone who completed the encounter before the cause of the bug was hotfixed, would have their kills reviewed. Ensidia looks the hero for saving the integrity of the encounter while refraining from cheesing it. They chose to continue on and complete an obviously bugged encounter, report their kill, then report the bug, locking access to it for guilds on teh same level.

It looks highly suspicious, and is not becoming of a world class guild. But hey, the fact that everyone is calling them on it is enough for me. Hopefully, the truth will out.

[Warlocomotif]

I don't like Ensidia, I think they sploited a lot of encounters in the past- I think they might've intentially sploited this one aswell... However saronite bombs are not on the GCD, and even if they were rogues have free GCD's due to waiting energy. If you think a top end guild would not use a cheap consumable that boosts DPS you're silly.

[Dodrin]

Hey guys, I wasn't part of the world first LK kill, and since there seems to be a bug that was explicitly Blizzards fault, I want them to revoke the kill and banhammer the whole guild!

It's only right!

[Mif]

I thought the "excuse" was hilarious. Your rogues using Saronite bombs which do 1000 damage that have a minute cooldown is their "usual" rotation. Right Ensidia, right.

http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t37183-p...updated_3_3_a/

Professions

Aldriana's post on professions.

Profession EP
* Engineering 80-89 (Mut), 90-99 (Combat)
Jewelcrafting 84+
Blacksmithing 80+
Leatherworking 80
Enchanting 80
Inscription 80
Alchemy 80

* Engineering EP is highly dependent on using bombs every cooldown. If bombs are
not used optimally, engineering EP can be below that of other professions.

I'm not defending Ensidia, but some people here have their heads firmly up their asses.