Ensidia suspended for 72 Hours

[Myztikrice]

So you go into 10 man, the floor doesn't re-appear. You go into 25 man, it re-appears. And they were supposed to know immediately that a) they were causing the bug b) it was the rogue with his bombs and c) if they get the rogue to do it again they'll get an easy kill?

I mean yeah, using saronite bombs is an obvious reason why a platform would re-appear. It was obvious.

They didn't know immediately. They knew after a couple attempts and kept going anyways.

Saronite Bombs have bugged floors in the past (see Anub'arak). In top guilds like these you are aware of these changes, and you analyze every encounter.

[Chozobo]

I think it would be hilarious when they come back from their ban, and spend the rest of their attempts and fail. They'll probably be one week behind everyone on hardmode progression.

And how come Kungen isn't posting anymore?

[Collected]

It will prove that they either did or didn't dps the Val'kyrs. If you can ignore the Val'kyrs and just dps the Lich King it completely changes the fight.

And that is reason for them to down tools and stop playing? Because they worked out they could go straight for the LK and zerg him?

Oh and I wonder how many people posting here enjoy causing the bug in Azjol-Nerub that allows you to go straight down to the spider without having to kill any of the adds.

[LordArcsinh]

Ensidia SHOULD have gotten a permanent ban, as this wasn't the first time they cheated.

Overrated cheated, they got perma banned.
Karatechop cheated, his guild got perma banned.

Balance is not in place just yet.

Yes, well, I won't hold my breath.

Though, I did say that to a friend about them being actioned at all and look at where we're at now... Maybe I should?

[boycamp]

Stop over-focusing on Ensidia and their ban please.
Tons of guilds have been banned previously, for "dodgy kills".

None of them require this much front page attention!

[Kuriah-KT]

Yes, I realize it is exceptionally sad that I made an account just to post my thoughts on this.

There have been many accusations about just what would people do if in the same situation. Not only is that an impossible request based on the evidence given - the simple fact of "we were not there" is the ultimate point.

I know that when I'm trying to learn an encounter I like to know what everyone else is doing so that I understand what is going on. From a raider's POV, I may have gleaned that there was a connection between the platforms rebuilding and the saronite bombs going off, especially if something that did not behave that way in 10man. However, I may not have. I know that in my guild my rogues are not engineers and therefore do not use bombs in their rotation. If I did suspect something was hinky, I would have sent in a petition saying so. I really would have been 100% upfront that something was not quite right with the encounter to prevent this sort of backlash from happening. Since a thing similaur happened with the endboss of Ulduar with a guild who got busted for using an exploit, this would have made me even more justified in saying something.

Do I think that the ban was just? I can't say. Not enough information. I would like to believe that Blizzard had evidence to do such an action, but I also know several cases where Blizzard over-reacted. I would like to think that if Ensidia had been 100% upfront with a GM or whatever that something wasn't quite right, that they would have just gotten the loot and achievements taken away. However, this also assumes something about both parties that I haven't the right to assume.

I do want to say this: Good luck to Ensidia for future endevours. I hope that this incident does not hold you back too badly for the other world firsts. This situation is regrettable but if anything, I hope that it allows you some insight into how to deal with it in the future to prevent such scrutiny. There will always be haters, but the best way to fend them off is having irrefutable proof that they are wrong. Beyond that? Ignore them.

[Figgernaggot]

-from Ensidia -"Yes it seems this bug does relate to our kill. We had no idea that our Rogues using Saronite Bombs in their rotation (as they always do) was causing it and thusly it occured every try we did. Short version, we're not going to stop trying the boss when all we are doing is playing our normal game. It would be nice if these kinds of things, much the same as Holy Wrath on Anub, were tested before release.

It does make the fight easier, but we are 100% sure it would have died either way. It only affects one of the easier phases.

As a side note this only occured in 25 man."

Good, so come back in 3 days, and 100% kill the boss. End of story. Losers.

[Thallidomaniac]

Stop over-focusing on Ensidia and their ban please.
Tons of guilds have been banned previously, for "dodgy kills".

None of them require this much front page attention!

Well, people are pissed that they got a lesser punishment because Blizzard didn't go all the way to deliver proper punishment, when they've done so before..

[Blazeskies]

LOL ban a guild for raiding and using a bug that the slacker ass blizz staff left in there...it's blizzard's fault for failing like that, not the guilds for using it to their advantage

Blizz is horing themselves out wayyyyyyyy too much nowadays for the money...making all content a complete joke so every noob can just get gear easy as hell, people want a CHALLENGE...not content we've been waiting years for then its downed within hours......

[slife]

i love how Blizzard decides to ban people when they find out something they didnt find out on their fail of a test realm. i dont blame ensidia at all, they found a niche in the system and they used it, so what. blizz should of just taken the achievment away and the loot and let them start the arthas fight all over again. this is just another prime example of blizzard releasing the patch without it fully tested.

[Keile]

Simply put:

Their rogue used the bombs, they saw that the platform came back prematurely. That should have been a dead giveaway right there that it was a bug, especially after a few wipes. NEVER would blizzard purposely design an encounter that would require specific profession-crafted items for it. So if you ever do a fight and you are an engineer or whatnot, and your items are actually causing shit to happen...IT'S A BUG!

By the time they downed him, they knew it was a bug.

i love how Blizzard decides to ban people when they find out something they didnt find out on their fail of a test realm.

They only internally tested the Lich King, sometimes players think more outside the box than the blizz employees.

[brianem]

These guys are best of the best, there's no way they could NOT know what they were doing. Besides this, Blizzard has more information than we do, including chat logs.

[DrRight]

If Ensidia really was as innocent as some seem to believe they are, they would have released their kill video by now. I think the likely scenario is that the single rogue reported the anomaly, and Ensidia being as smart as they are quickly figured it out and put it to good use with their other engineers. That makes it an exploit. Yes its lame that they would have had to go out of their way to avoid it(not having their single rogue using saronite bombs) but at the same point its lame that they trivialized the phase.

Though not having done that fight or know the specifics of the bug its hard to say whether or not having other people use bombs would have an additional bonus or not.

[Caradinist]

That is one big slap to the face.

I suppose even if they killed the Val'kir early as intended (They did or did not, who knows) and not pay attention to the suddenly rebuilt platform, they would have been suspended regardless.

As i said in the kill post. How odd and rare of a bug must this be, that everything in the fight is working correctly, except a single saronite bomb could've accidentally rebuilt the platforms? Sounds odd enough to have been overlooked by blizzard's testers.

Good for Ensidia to have gone anyway dealing with a bug. Given the whole "WORLD FIRST!!1" mentality, and a boss, a 7-8 year old character who has been taunting you this whole time available that day, any guild would have gone until the attempts were gone.


For those who are (D'OH DAT MUST ME U R AN ENSIDIA FANBOI?): Nope, it just means i have a different opinion than yours.

[Floran12]

Losers.

Say the warlock from Exodus, oh the irony. ;D

[Scigodomega]

The ban was justified, these giuys cheated and KNEW they cheated.

As the logs and commentary in pages 9-11 of this thread show they were tanking the LK or his add or both near the edge of the platform during the fight, something you wouldnt do if you were doing the fight normally because the valkyrs would kill you, so they KNEW something was up, and were using it.

and dont give me this new fight BS, they downed arthas in 10 man so they were fully familiar.

Secondly, this was CHEATING. This wasnt using a game mechanic cleverly, as the platform was never meant to respawn. Theres a DIFFERENCE.


Using a game mechanic cleverly is like when people figured out you could 2 man FL in ulduar - they simply toook advantage of the time FL chased a target.

He chases target, then changes target- something that was MEANT to happen. Blizz just didnt foresee people 2 manning it.
CHEATING/glitching:
The platform in the arthas fight was never meant to respawn, that was a GLITCH.
Ensidia figured out said glitch, and then intentionally used it, now lie about it to us here, as exposed in this thread

(when they first posted a update on the bug, they said it happened every try, then later kungen says it didnt happen every try)

and if they were innocent they dont have anything to hide.
Yet as someone pointed out, theres a 7 minute chunk missing from the logs they posted, for P2... gee, where did that 7 minutes go?

3rdly, when they first posted their kill alot of people wondered why they censored the chat bar- i believe this is why. They were intentionally explotiong the bug, discussed it in chat, and didnt want it seen, well blizzard, who likely investigated this, did see they did it intentionally.

get over it. Ensidia blatantly cheated.
Some of you are such hard core fan boys you will support them no matter what.
A member of ensidia could say, rape a chick IRL and some of you are such fanboys youd say
"He wasnt raping her! he was trying to defuse a bomb that was lodged inside her, and only he could reach!"

What they did was cheating, they tried to hide it, and as pg 9-11 in this thread showed, they failed at it.

Im not saying you have to hate ensidia if you like them, even if you are a "fan", im just saying in this instance..they cheated.

[Jin84]

I don't think some people know how serious their penalty is.

They got achievement removed which is needed to unlock hard mode AND the Lich King is dead in their ID. This means they are set back TWO weeks in the HM race, not just 3 days as they need to re-kill the LK normal.

[Haylo]

And that is reason for them to down tools and stop playing? Because they worked out they could go straight for the LK and zerg him?

Oh and I wonder how many people posting here enjoy causing the bug in Azjol-Nerub that allows you to go straight down to the spider without having to kill any of the adds.

By bugging the encounter on purpose and risking a ban? Yes. A world first on the boss that ends the expansion is going to be heavily scrutinized.

Touché on the AN bug though. I can't deny I have never done that before

[Thallidomaniac]

I don't think some people know how serious their penalty is.

They got achievement removed which is needed to unlock hard mode AND the Lich King is dead in their ID. This means they are set back TWO weeks in the HM race, not just 3 days as they need to re-kill the LK normal.

No, it's not as serious as they'll be back to their sleazy ways in 72 hours. Overrated and Karatechop weren't given a second chance in comparison.

This is like giving Bernard Madoff a plea deal so he can start scamming people over their hard-earned money all over again.

[Scigodomega]

i love how Blizzard decides to ban people when they find out something they didnt find out on their fail of a test realm. i dont blame ensidia at all, they found a niche in the system and they used it, so what. blizz should of just taken the achievment away and the loot and let them start the arthas fight all over again. this is just another prime example of blizzard releasing the patch without it fully tested.

No, they didnt get banned for finding a bug.


People dont get banned for just finding bugs. you find a bug, and you REPORT IT. They got banned for finding a bug, then intentionally using it to their advantage.


Its like if you find a wad of cash on the ground, and then report it to the cops, you dont get arrested. But find a wad of cash, go out and spend it, and now your a thief.

like here..find a bug, report it, OK! Find a bug, then intentionally use said bug, you GET BANNED.

glitching has ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS BEEN against the TOS. Why the hell some of you act like its a travesty that some cheaters got banned Ill never know. people get banned for glivhting all the time, and not always in a raid context.
Glitch to get under orgrimmar? banned.