The Ensidia Incident Explained

[hawtlol]

Not going to work. Tickets on that server i would think would take about as long on my server (Magtheridon EU) which is anything between about 10 hours and a week.And if they would've instantly answered the ticket because they were observing then there really shoul've been no need for a ticket because they would've realised what was going on.

kungen had addmitted to knowing they were watching them fight the lich king so no the ticket would have gotten answered instantly

[supa]

I read the first couple of pages of this thread and came up with this.
One day on my server, there was a bug in Wintergrasp. It kept resetting very fast. I think someone told me that they got a ridiculous amount of marks, maybe like 50. This he told me the day after, so assuming that Blizzard found out about it, they were able to kept what they spent.
This was a server bug, and the players did NOTHING WRONG.
If what Ensidia did was truly wrong, then EVERYONE WHO COMPLETED SAURFANG BEFORE THE BUFF SHOULD HAND BACK THEIR LOOT AND BE BANNED. Honestly, it's the same thing, taking advantage of an encounter that was bugged. Blizzard was way too harsh on them. A much better solution would be to reset that fight for them and let them re-try without the bug. The time ban is hopefully just for investigative purposes, otherwise that's a joke. They 'MAYBE' took advantage of a bug and are banned for a game they pay for. It is a game and while World Firsts are important to a lot of people, it was Blizzard's problem. If there was no bug then there would probably be no problem.

[Arrganot]

dude spaz you need to stop spazzing ;D also you need to realize not every single person who plays video games is a nerd thast why i hate those kinds of stereotypes

[Arrganot]

I read the first couple of pages of this thread and came up with this.
One day on my server, there was a bug in Wintergrasp. It kept resetting very fast. I think someone told me that they got a ridiculous amount of marks, maybe like 50. This he told me the day after, so assuming that Blizzard found out about it, they were able to kept what they spent.
This was a server bug, and the players did NOTHING WRONG.
If what Ensidia did was truly wrong, then EVERYONE WHO COMPLETED SAURFANG BEFORE THE BUFF SHOULD HAND BACK THEIR LOOT AND BE BANNED. Honestly, it's the same thing, taking advantage of an encounter that was bugged. Blizzard was way too harsh on them. A much better solution would be to reset that fight for them and let them re-try without the bug. The time ban is hopefully just for investigative purposes, otherwise that's a joke. They 'MAYBE' took advantage of a bug and are banned for a game they pay for. It is a game and while World Firsts are important to a lot of people, it was Blizzard's problem. If there was no bug then there would probably be no problem.

Amen

[Arrganot]

Another thing too is why is it always the Horde who get world first come on Alliance get your ass in gear

[Spazcat]

wow funny joke, really, i lold, rofl. Most people who you come across in this game are either A) 12 year old middle schoolers. B) 40 year old men looking for girls. or C) Nerds who havent seen the light of day in a week and their diet consists of hotpockets and mt. dew. Maybe like 2% of this games population get some, or do spots, or go outside. But honestly, most are nerds. deal with it, if you weren't a nerd, you'd have something better to do than sit behind your laptop and play a videogame, even in the economic crisis at the moment, finding a job is quite possible, you 40 year old men should go get one instead of paying for some chinese guys dinner after he hacked some 12 year old nerds account after buying gold off lisaexpress.com

[Arrganot]

Sigh.. Okay, here we go then, do this the hard way.

I'll try to separate this to put you in your place slowly and carefully.

First off; I have NOT said anything about hating anyone, me killing the lich king, or anything about Ensidia in this matter.

You basically said that Arthas is faceroll without even attempting him. I countered with saying, no, he's not a faceroll. I'm playing in world's top 300 guild, and we are currently on Sindragosa on 25 man, we are wiping on phase 3. Therefore, we have yet not killed Arthas.

Now, to the issue at hand, I was telling you that you cannot assume that this fight is faceroll just because a group of VERY VERY good players managed to practice him for 20 tries, and then kill him on the mains.

And second of all, Ensidia's dinner table? I hate ensidia of all my heart and if they get perm-ban, I'll have a smile on my face for a week, so please, do not come and do false AND pointless accusations about me. Knowing the mechanics of the fight isn't the same as executing them.

why do you hate them is it competition or something or is it more personal and im not trying to be a ass like spazcat

[Arrganot]

wow funny joke, really, i lold, rofl. Most people who you come across in this game are either A) 12 year old middle schoolers. B) 40 year old men looking for girls. or C) Nerds who havent seen the light of day in a week and their diet consists of hotpockets and mt. dew. Maybe like 2% of this games population get some, or do spots, or go outside. But honestly, most are nerds. deal with it, if you weren't a nerd, you'd have something better to do than sit behind your laptop and play a videogame, even in the economic crisis at the moment, finding a job is quite possible, you 40 year old men should go get one instead of paying for some chinese guys dinner after he hacked some 12 year old nerds account after buying gold off lisaexpress.com

for one thing im 15 and you know you are tlaking about yourself so stop bitchin all day and just go out and quote " Maybe like 2% of this games population get some, or do spots, or go outside." if this is you then gratz you have a life but stop putting other guys down becasue they do things diffrently then you. But if thast your opinion fine

[Spazcat]

I'm not being an ass, im suporting my opinion/arguement on this matter. If you have a problem with other peoples opinions, check into rehab. "I feel that my opinions about Ensidia aren't to be discussed in this thread," - keke. wow keke, are you some like politician who cant be heard in public for fear of people digging up dirt on you? Get off my internet dude, acting like a big shot gets you nothing but more hate against you. Your sitting behind your computer right now trying to act tough and smart and shit while discussing what 25 people, who are better than you, did which makes you jealous that your still in lvl 70 greens at 80 on your gnome. Also, don't act smart like, "ima let you have it easy" you just look more like a pathetic loser. Btw, nice job trying to backtrack your statement about me not trying the fight yet your in a "top 300" guild. I highly doubt that dude, what is it then? I'd love to know the name of your top 300 pro raiding guild! Also, if the lich king was downed within first few days of his release on 25 man yet a boss from 2 content patchs ago took months, that makes zero sense at all. Some bosses are harder than the last boss in their respective raid, alot of guilds found some bosses in naxx harder than Kel'thuzad was. Get over it that your a nobody in a videogame. /thread.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

I just feel like what I read on front page today was a joke. How the hell did they got banned because of this? Seriously? Aww common, yeah, they did the use of a glitch. Now, let's say you're in competition with thousands of people all around the world. In those peoples, you're in the few elitists working tongue and nail to achieve your goal. On the sheet they give you, you notice that something is wrong about some few things on the sheet and that somes answers have marks over them. You never saw other teams sheet. So you do think it's normal. Then your team use that "glitch/error/mistake" for winning. You win. But then, the competition judges come and say "Sorry, you've been using glitches for your personal goal. Now you lose the competition and YOU'RE BANNED FOR 3 YEARS."

So, for the few here who think that Ensidia had to be banned and lose the achievement like THAT, I don't agree. Ok, maybe they did deserve to lose the achievement, but not the loot or either beign banned. All they did is playing the game as someone normal would do, with items blizzard have put in the game. So, was this fair? No. Why did blibli ban them? I don't know either. I just do hope it's a fake, honestly.

[Spazcat]

yah rofl I messed the wording on that up big time, what it should have said was "but IF the raid leader said "blahblahblah" is enough proof. I noticed that and was like, w/e no one will notice lol!

[epard]

I'm not being an ass, im suporting my opinion/arguement on this matter. If you have a problem with other peoples opinions, check into rehab. "I feel that my opinions about Ensidia aren't to be discussed in this thread," - keke. wow keke, are you some like politician who cant be heard in public for fear of people digging up dirt on you? Get off my internet dude, acting like a big shot gets you nothing but more hate against you. Your sitting behind your computer right now trying to act tough and smart and shit while discussing what 25 people, who are better than you, did which makes you jealous that your still in lvl 70 greens at 80 on your gnome. Also, don't act smart like, "ima let you have it easy" you just look more like a pathetic loser. Btw, nice job trying to backtrack your statement about me not trying the fight yet your in a "top 300" guild. I highly doubt that dude, what is it then? I'd love to know the name of your top 300 pro raiding guild! Also, if the lich king was downed within first few days of his release on 25 man yet a boss from 2 content patchs ago took months, that makes zero sense at all. Some bosses are harder than the last boss in their respective raid, alot of guilds found some bosses in naxx harder than Kel'thuzad was. Get over it that your a nobody in a videogame. /thread.

Telling him not to act like a big shot when you really said YOUR internet also let's see your gladiator title? Oh yeah that's right because you're nobody in a video game get over it

[KassieDS]

Nice pic man but grats on the ban.

[Cyclone]

Sorry for bumping this futher but I just grew sick of haters / fanboys talking shit without using common sense and reading the facts.

Was this exploit intentional or not?
Even if some of the ensidia players knew about a similar bug from before(http://www.ensidia.com/mek/blog/567/),
We got two chases, one being that it was intentional and the other being it was just an acident.

If the bugg was unintentional should they have been banned?

Yes
why? It made the encounter easier, even it's unintentional it's still an unfair advantage given.

What did this exploit do?
Instead of dpsing / slowing / stuning the vrkyls they could just nuke boss instead, which they did.

Taken from (http://www.ensidia.com/Ekyu/blog/4079/)
Later on someone said that we didn't need to kill Valkyrs when the floor was here (that's one Valkyr of the course of multiple attempts that we failed to kill, and there's 3 of them each of the many waves we got). The idea at this point was pretty much that if this bug happened again then we could just leave the valkyrs and DPS on boss which made the encounter even more boring (add killing encounter for you) and in the end made P3 feel lighter on our empty stomachs. I think I heard someone saying at some point that the bug actually happened if we successfully cleared in a fast enough time frame the first wave of Valkyrs. Which proved wrong later on and on the actual kill.


Even if blizz did a half sloppy job on the encounter you have do relize it doesn't mean ensidia should have kept the title of world first.

The consequences
Even if they do deserve the ban, they should still able to redo lich king within the reset so they dont get behind on the hardmodes, they are one of the best guilds in the world with the best progress overall in wow, would be really poor of blizzard to put them away from the hardmode race due a technicality. It wouldn't be a real hardmode race without Ensidia.
I think everyone would agree that blizzard wants to send a message to all the top guilds in the future that even in spirit of compition if you find a bugg or glitch you can't use it or , WE WILL BAN YOU.

One thing I would like to add is this;

Is the OP truthworthy?

You can't know for sure, however if you look at http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/tarren-mill/Ensidia
you'll see that 10 members left the same day. This CAN support his story. But is can also mean these players just emoquit after the discover of the bans.

[EDIT: Yes.. of course the movie. Well I really dont think ensidia would go trying world firsts on lich king without frapsing. So I guess there might be some truth in that statement aswell]

enjoy and stop the non sense

[Simbert]

I find it really interesting how many people take what an obvious troll posts as granted.

I mean, come on. A new account, with exactly one post.

Let me try it myself:

Ok. I am a member of the developement team of Blizzard. Because i have so insanely high morals, i need to tell you that we actually intentionally scripted this bug into the game. This was so we could test the moral integrity of the top guilds by watching who would notice this bug, and report it, and who would try to exploit it. This is also why we could remove it that fast after the information about it got out. We already had the hotfix to remove it ready to be used.

Guilds who were caught exploiting this bug will be under very heavy supervision on any further attempts to world-first bosses.

We had an intern memo that totally would prove that, but sadly, every copy of it was burned after the person it was send to read it. This is also why you will never see said memo.


That was probably not very trustworthy. I could have done better if i invested more time, and actually made a new topic saying the above, possible reducing the sarcasm, and so on. Probably some people would have believed it. But i am no troll, so i don´t.

Now. A simple lesson. People on the internet can claim to be whatever they want. They can tell you strange stuff. Just because you want to believe something is true does not make it true.

If i told you that i am a brain surgeon and could make you insanely intelligent, would you let me cut open your skull?

I do not care whether or not the exploit was intentionally, or anything. I do not even care about this kill. I do not care about people who are not me killing stuff. And i do especially not care which guild that does not involve me kills something first, since they all are kind of the same to me. Some guys i do not know who like to raid stuff very much. I just wrote the last few lines to explain that i am not some kind of Ensidia-Fanboy, since my post is not filled with insane hate. I do not care about that kill. I just do not like a troll harvesting so many food.

Please, do not take anything you read on a totally open forum for granted, especially if it is controverse "information" without any proof or source. Use some common sense.

[xionkarl]

I do not care whether or not the exploit was intentionally, or anything. I do not even care about this kill. I do not care about people who are not me killing stuff. And i do especially not care which guild that does not involve me kills something first, since they all are kind of the same to me. Some guys i do not know who like to raid stuff very much. I just wrote the last few lines to explain that i am not some kind of Ensidia-Fanboy, since my post is not filled with insane hate. I do not care about that kill. I just do not like a troll harvesting so many food.

Please, do not take anything you read on a totally open forum for granted, especially if it is controverse "information" without any proof or source. Use some common sense.

Then why bother with the wall of text?

Also "controverse" is not a word, you're probably looking for the word controversial.

Also just because you can't prove anything on the internet, the same is true for trying to disprove. So really, believe it if you want to, but if you do want to, take it with a grain of salt, because you can't be 100% certain it's the truth.

[xionkarl]

I just feel like what I read on front page today was a joke. How the hell did they got banned because of this? Seriously? Aww common, yeah, they did the use of a glitch. Now, let's say you're in competition with thousands of people all around the world. In those peoples, you're in the few elitists working tongue and nail to achieve your goal. On the sheet they give you, you notice that something is wrong about some few things on the sheet and that somes answers have marks over them. You never saw other teams sheet. So you do think it's normal. Then your team use that "glitch/error/mistake" for winning. You win. But then, the competition judges come and say "Sorry, you've been using glitches for your personal goal. Now you lose the competition and YOU'RE BANNED FOR 3 YEARS."

So, for the few here who think that Ensidia had to be banned and lose the achievement like THAT, I don't agree. Ok, maybe they did deserve to lose the achievement, but not the loot or either beign banned. All they did is playing the game as someone normal would do, with items blizzard have put in the game. So, was this fair? No. Why did blibli ban them? I don't know either. I just do hope it's a fake, honestly.

How did they get banned for exploiting a bug you ask?
You can find the answer in the ToS and whatnot.

Fact is they were not in competition with thousands of people as I highly doubt thousands of people were actually fighting the Lich King successfully on day one or even day two. Maybe fought him, but not come close to actually beating him. I am referring to 25man specifically.

Why are you comparing WoW to what you seem to be generalizing as a written exam? Two totally different things here. However the consequences can be similar. Cheat on a test, you fail, and if you're in school you can possibly be suspended depending on history and prior offenses.

Regardless if an encounter is bugged it is against the ToS to abuse or exploit such bug, and if you're basing your assumptions from the OP the Guild Leader wanted this exploited, so he willingly exploited the bug for the benefit of a World First. They could have easily reported the bug, and waited for it to be fixed and retry the encounter. No one else downed 25man Lich King until today, so they still would have had plenty of time.

Also the "banned for three years" comment is really over doing it. 3 days in no way feels like 3 three years, unless you're into cryo-sleep and such.

[Simbert]

Then why bother with the wall of text?

Also "controverse" is not a word, you're probably looking for the word controversial.

Also just because you can't prove anything on the internet, the same is true for trying to disprove. So really, believe it if you want to, but if you do want to, take it with a grain of salt, because you can't be 100% certain it's the truth.

That was exactly what i wanted to express. Somehow, if i start typing, i somehow end up with a wall of text. I can not exactly tell how that happens, but at most times, i want to say one simple thing, and it ends up as half a page of a post.

While the general topic at hand is not really interesting to me, the handling of the suspect is.

What i meant is that somehow, many posts in this topic seem to believe that referring back to the OP is some kind of a prove. I just wanted people to first think about whether you believe that the information given is true or false, and not simply accept it as fact because someone on the internet said it.

And i apologize for using the wrong word. I am not a native english speaker, and thought it was the correct one. The german word for it is "kontrovers", which might explain my mistake, but i thank you for the correction.

[xionkarl]

That was exactly what i wanted to express. Somehow, if i start typing, i somehow end up with a wall of text. I can not exactly tell how that happens, but at most times, i want to say one simple thing, and it ends up as half a page of a post.

While the general topic at hand is not really interesting to me, the handling of the suspect is.

What i meant is that somehow, many posts in this topic seem to believe that referring back to the OP is some kind of a prove. I just wanted people to first think about whether you believe that the information given is true or false, and not simply accept it as fact because someone on the internet said it.

And i apologize for using the wrong word. I am not a native english speaker, and thought it was the correct one. The german word for it is "kontrovers", which might explain my mistake, but i thank you for the correction.

I can totally understand that, I used to be an avid forum poster back in the day, but nowadays I lose interest in the actual posting before I actually post it.

I agree that while we can't be 100% sure the OP is legit, all it is is really discussion, and in the end it's all harmless anyway, just take it all with a grain of salt, remind yourself of your opinion, try not to judge other people, and just move on.

It's harder nowadays, people cling to their opinions like never before and everyone thinks they are right and anyone else with a differing opinion is wrong.

Personally, I think Ensidia exploited a bug, deserved the ban and the revocation of the achievement. But of course, that's my opinion, no one except Blizzard and Ensidia knows what really happened, so no one can really say one way or another and that is really the bottom line.

Because of what Blizzard did with the revocation we are left with Blood Legion being the World First killers of the Lich King and the World First 10man Lich King kill, and Paragon being the World First 25man Lich King killers. People can no longer say that Ensidia killed the Lich King in 25man first because there is no proof. No one in Ensidia has the achievement, and there is no video. Even if there was a video, fraps videos seldom have timestamps.

So while people cling to their opinions and try to relish them as facts they are desperately just trying to be loyal to a group they happen to like. There's nothing wrong with feeling like Ensidia was shafted, they very well may have been, but no one can know for sure except for Blizzard and those 25 guys that were in that raid. People just like to take things way too far nowadays and it's sad how much negative effort people devote to a game.

[Chahir]

The reason for the ban is somewhat misguided. But there is little doubt in my mind that they fully deserved it. Tun, Kungen and Ekyu all admitten in various posts and blogs that they did not kill the valkyrs on the kill try.

This is clearly abusing a obvious design bug, as it did not happen on all attempts, and did not ever occur in 10man.

Also, the logs provided only show the rogue. It makes no mention of allocated damage of other players saronite bombs, or lack thereof.

If a gm ticket would have been submitted as the bug first appeared, I wouldn't have objected to them trying more attempts. As any fault could be handed on the customer service not acting fast enough. But alas, no claims of doing such ever occured.