Lich King US First Kill, Tanking Changes

[DaLeetPawner]

Let me see how it is:

Blizzard buffs paladins. Warriors QQ.
Blizzard nerfs paladins. Warriors still QQ.

I don't think warriors are going to be happy unless Blizzard removes paladins from the game. Too much tank envy.

I think I found my /thread

[sTyLnK]

Gratz on Vodka for playing by the rules and not cheating.

[Zippydin]

I'm assuming Blizzard still don't understand the monster that this talent truly is.

"attacks that would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to..."
"attacks that would otherwise kill you cause you"...
"attacks that Would Otherwise Kill You..."
It could be a 3 day cooldown and it would STILL be stupid to have a talent that basically says "when everyone messes up, you'll still survive, through no effort of your own". It is the single oh crap button in that game that requires no player interaction, thus no measurable amount of skill, in order to use.

Screw 'adjusting', this talent should never made it into live.

... and yes, it doesn't matter that it's "only 1 hit". It's 1 hit more than it should be.

QQ Mr. warrior we dont get last stand

[Jairulnait]

I can't recall a single fight in which the "save you from an attack that would have killed you" AD effect has saved us from a wipe that wasn't about to happen anyway. I only see it proc when either the healers are dead or the other tank is dead (on tank switching or cleaving fights) and it only delays the wipe. Well, it gives me more time to DI someone and save us both a repair bill, so I guess that's OP...

I would rather have another active defensive CD (besides Divine Prot) that I can choose when to use and would actually be helpful during fights. And people counting Divine Shield and BoP as "bubbles" for tanking...? Right...

This nerf to tankadins is a reaction from Blizz to the QQ from the Warrior tank PvP nerfs that affected their damage in PvE somewhat ("WTH, we got nerfed? Nerf pallies too now!!!"). Guess what, our damage also got nerfed (holy damage scaling with STR, instead of STAM) a while back because of the silly offspec protadin healers in PvP, plus they later nerfed our threat generated through Righteous Fury too.

Any time Blizz realizes that another tanking class becomes a viable alternative to warrior tanks, they get the nerf bat; because heaven forbid guilds decide to take them over warriors! They did the same to DKs a while back, and are now buffing/fixing them again when they found out they screwed them over.
Ahh, how I fondly remember the times in Pre-WotLK when tankadins where told to "GTFO, you can't tank this, go respec holy or something". /sarcasm

[Martinesco]

God landsoul is such a stud :-*

Anyways.. GO GO TEAM MERIKUH

[bayetovsky]

QQ Mr. warrior we dont get last stand

If a warrior lags a bit more and LS doesn't "pop in" at the right time, he's dead. If the paladin lags a bit and for some reason fails to use a CD on the right time, AD saves him. As simple as that. LS is useful for some other situations but AD simply gives you another credit.

Remember Algalon? Prefered tank for it was Paladin... remember why?

Anyway, for the current content the encounter that comes to mind with this conversation is festergut (mainly with 3 inhales). After bubblewall disappears from the paladin he still has the "extra credit" if he gets killed while the warrior has to carefully time his CDs to go thro it.
Not to mention that if you get hit for 32k and u're standing under 1k hp, it'll "heal" you instead of killing you. The warrior may not survive it even with last stand (if we consider lower HP tanks and all that)...

I remember seeing a tank dying with a hit of 1 (and all the rest was overkill). Not a very likely scenario but when I was analysing the combat logs, that death made me lol like hell. If he was a paladin he would've just... healed!

Imho, push a button get ardent defender "proc" available (for some secs like LS) and keep it "preventing death". That way the tank would have to react instead of just stand there.

Edit: and yeah that extra second you get from AD can help the healers get you back to full in case they fell asleep and started the heal cast a sec too late...

Edit2: grats Vodka xD nice screenie

[DiamondTear]

AD must be fine because Paragon's pally tank still died two times in LK 25

Remember Algalon? Prefered tank for it was Paladin... remember why?

Algalon was long dead before AD was cheat death

[junkpriest]

This thread is now about whining over Will of the Necropolis + Vampiric Blood. Go.

[Serago]

I have read some things about Ardent Defender.. First of all, I'm a prot pally myself (Acia on Xavius EU), and I admit that AD is kind of OP due to the fact that it's a passive talent that just don't let me die. That's fair, I'll admit that. But why would you all like it to be an active talent? Doesen't that make us like warriors with Last Stand? I really don't see the point in doing that. Rather do something creative with it than making it more like Last Stand.

As for me it rarely procs, and if it does it's mainly a wipe before hand. But I can't deny that it have saved some wipes in the past.

And to all of you "pally-haters" out there: Stop with the "paladins can't play"-bullshit. Just because you have come over some noobs don't mean everyone are. Just look at DK's. We all think they are 12 year old kids playing because they can't do anything else. Well, that's a load of bull too.

Well, enough from me. If anyone would reply, I probaly wont answer. I'm lazy.

[Sauveur]

People really need to stop starting their posts with "english is my second language so sorry if my grammar is bad".

Such an over-used anti-troll shield.

[FireBorne]

Ensidia use saronite bombs to bug it. Paragon uses a alt raid to learn the fight so they dont waste attempts. So far both are "clever use of game mechanics" Using a alt raid is no different then having to SS the entire raid using level 19 warlocks. What guild didnt bug or alt raid the encounter? So now on hard modes you alt raid the thing to practice and bring in mains when your attempts are done. Your given a certain number of attempts the idea isnt to bring in alts and practice then bring in mains to clear it. They limit your attempts so people dont clear the shit by hammering it out for 24 hours. But now people figure bring in the alts and mains to get double the tries "clever use of game mechanics"

This may very well be one of the stupidests post i have ever read. Using alts is not a "clever use of game mechanics" som e ppl like to raid on multiple toons period, alt runs are a great way to keep your alt geared and ready to come off the bench and fufill a role in any given week if you lose a raider member or just another way to have fun. Some ppl are so amazing at their role that they are always pidgeonholed into doing the same role week after week, xpac after xpac. These ppl dont complain because they know how valuable they are to their guild so why not roll an alt to do soemthing different in a raiding enviroment. If you're expendable alt is used to learn an encounter that is loads different than blatantly bugging a fight. I run 10m so i can understand the 25m fights more, nothing clever about that at all, just smarter playing.

[Balo]

it may just be me But AD is really nothing more then an SS or reincarnation so if everyone is going to bitch that they need to nerf AD then blizzard should really look into nerfing those skills also bc people who are using those are basically cheating also.

[marzo]

On the AD is OP subject any of you that thinks AD is OP ever stopped to think that yes AD will save 1 death every few mins but the 20% hp from LS can save a few deaths during a 20 sec time. Yea pally wont have to do anything to prevent that death but as soon as AD goes off its done. LS on the other hand can save you from dying during 20 sec. As far as im concern give warrior AD and give pallies LS.

[minnerva]

On the AD is OP subject any of you that thinks AD is OP ever stopped to think that yes AD will save 1 death every few mins but the 20% hp from LS can save a few deaths during a 20 sec time. Yea pally wont have to do anything to prevent that death but as soon as AD goes off its done. LS on the other hand can save you from dying during 20 sec. As far as im concern give warrior AD and give pallies LS.

AD is a spell. warriors are not smart enough even to form a sentence, i think max they can say to communicate is "me Smash!" after all, their buffs are all shouts and grunts ^.^

[trooshott]

so many gnomes >

[talitu]

wow pallies been way ahead of the other 3 for so long now i didn't think they were going to bother balancing them this expansion, its been a major annoyance in my guild because our paladin is a complete tool we only keep him around because of how OP they are , cant wait to sack him

and AD does proc a lot for us and has saved us a lot of wipes. it is OP but its totally in theme with the no skill approach of pallie tanking (just teasing you guys! i know you do have more than one button now... you just don't need em! lol)

[Aroam]

So many people cutting their left hand cause they feel it's overpowered compared to their right hand.. you get the metaphor I hope. It's a team effort, by calling for nerfs you only lose as a team.
I also notice usually when AD pops it's a wipe anyway, unless the boss is very low on health.
Gratz to taking down Lich King Vodka. Bottoms up!

[Persuade]

nothing clever about that at all, just smarter playing.

wut?

[Nektarious]

I'm assuming Blizzard still don't understand the monster that this talent truly is.

"attacks that would otherwise kill you cause you to be healed by up to..."
"attacks that would otherwise kill you cause you"...
"attacks that Would Otherwise Kill You..."
It could be a 3 day cooldown and it would STILL be stupid to have a talent that basically says "when everyone messes up, you'll still survive, through no effort of your own". It is the single oh crap button in that game that requires no player interaction, thus no measurable amount of skill, in order to use.

Screw 'adjusting', this talent should never made it into live.

... and yes, it doesn't matter that it's "only 1 hit". It's 1 hit more than it should be.

As someone with both a warrior and DK tank I really don't see a problem with this ability. I understand I'm going to be slamed by the trolls for saying that. But abilities like this are what makes the tanking classes different, they all have their "Panic Buttons". And if you really feel that way about it, re-roll and stop complaining about it.

[Asur]

wow pallies been way ahead of the other 3 for so long now i didn't think they were going to bother balancing them this expansion, its been a major annoyance in my guild because our paladin is a complete tool we only keep him around because of how OP they are , cant wait to sack him

and AD does proc a lot for us and has saved us a lot of wipes. it is OP but its totally in theme with the no skill approach of pallie tanking (just teasing you guys! i know you do have more than one button now... you just don't need em! lol)

Sounds to me like you just need to find a new tank and stop letting him bitch you around.