ICC-destroying guilds/mass server transfers?

[ohshift]

the mentality of lfd enters here i think.
that mentality of LULULUL, HOW YOU DARE TO WIPE ONCE?
I've seen people leaving from ICC in the first wipe, calling everyone baddies.

[Sapu94]

Honestly, when people complain that "(somewhat hard content goes here) killed my guild" it really just shows that they just have gotten used to and come to expect gear to be handed out to them in a regular fashion without any skill required like it has been previously in this x-pack and their guild probably shouldn't be doing said content. So, if ICC killed a guild that means it was successful in that, as I've seen posted on other forums, "it requires raiders to use their hands instead of their face" to get through it.

[Annelie]

It has become readily apparent to me just by going through forums and talking to people on different servers that it is hard to keep a 25 man guild together currently. Raiders are consistently transferring or people are becoming fed up with leadership and guild disbands. I have seen flux in populations of servers in a matter of two weeks going from high to low and vise versa. It has become ridiculous. People are server hopping like no other all wanting to get to the Lich King faster.

There is a mentality that "if a guild doesn't progress a boss forward every week then I should transfer to one that can". Where did this come from?

It just seems odd to me that now during the final raid dungeon guilds that have lasted through all of WOTLK are dissipating into nothing.

Apparently people were expecting ICC to be roflstomp easy like TOC?
Or is being in a top 500 guild really that big of a deal?
Or is wiping/putting in 20+ attempts on a boss unacceptable?
Or people just can't stick together without causing political drama that ultimately ends in seperation?

I just don't understand. ICC isn't that hard it certainly isn't even close to as difficult as any pre wotlk raids

Maybe I am just seeing things/ seeing a biased perspective from servers that are having these problems, but I feel like this is occurring more and more frequently.

It is called WotLK where they got L confused with B, Wrath of the Bads King. The "raiders" of WotLK is horribly bad at this game, the skill level started to drop in TBC already and now it is almost complte, in Cataclysm thye prob have to redo all classes and just give them 1 button and a pre made moving pattern so you dont have to controll your toon. If you are a healer you will have a "Heal button" it heals someone thats low on HP, If you are a damage dealer you will have a "DMG button" that damages the thing the game selects for you so you dont dps the wrong target, If you are a tank there is a "tank" button that makes you generate threat to all mobs close to you. Then all you have to do is pray that you aint grouping with ppl that think it is to hard to press 1 button like in todays raids.

[Bisley]

cho'gall had a mass exodus from their server alliance side. They also had a HUGE in flux of people coming back due to forums and free transfers. Then all the "raiders" (who were all pretty bad mind you. the BEST there were average on a good day) killed northrend beasts10 on hard mode and started trash talking everyone else (who had just hit level 80 after casually rerolling out of sympathy). Like not just little bits of trash talking. BAD trash talking. stuff like the top guilds recruiting post in trade chat (yeah, top guild recruiting in trade) said something about "Want to see ICC? well you have to join us cause all the other guilds on this server suck". Pretty sure the guild leader was a horde faction transfer because he was a reject there.

this mentality was partially caused because of the removal of attunements. Remember when the guild HAD to stick together for weeks and weeks of TK wipes? No hardcore guild that was already attuned wanted to recruit someone that wasnt keyed. that meant having to rerun it on an offnight. So you didnt get to server hop. You stuck it out and got your attunement with your guild.
Nowadays people server hop, get carried through by a guild that could 24 man the places, get an achievement then brag like they contributed something. Same thing often happened with attunements I guess. But at least then you had to work to earn things, which means you had to stay dedicated.

tl;dr people are jerks cause mass server transfers, and attunements used to keep noobs from transferring to better guilds.

[Halicia]

It is called WotLK where they got L confused with B, Wrath of the Bads King. The "raiders" of WotLK is horribly bad at this game,

I think this is in large part why so many guilds are onepatch wonders.

In BC, progression was fairly artificially gated, so players generally only left if their ability/dedication surpassed the guild they were currently in. (ie... their raid attendance geared them past the content the guild was stuck on so they stepped up to a 'better' guild). but this didnt destroy guilds since there was a steady supply of players one step down the tier ladder waiting to do the same thing.

but now, with the exceptions of server first and higher end achievement progression guilds, the ladder is gone. characters are ready for endgame content the day they turn 80. (I'm not exaggerating here either, its the gearing route I chose for my alts. why suffer thru t7 and t8 when you can skip to t9 and t10 ?)

What this means for guilds, is that if the leaders cannot immediately and successfully resolve the first bosses of each new patch, its easier for the raiders to say 'fk this, this other guild knows how to kill the bosses, I'll coast with them'.

and in large part, I dont blame them. Because the guilds I've seen wiping on ANY bosses in WotLK, has been due to issues with leadership. Either through an inability to form a raid capable of clearing the encounter (for whatever reason, be it mouthbreathers, undergeared, or 24 pallies and a priest), or because they are unwilling/unable to adapt to working strategies.

Let's face it, all you have to do to find out 'how' to clear a boss on day 1 is to google it. by day 2 guilds have generally found the 'easy way'. and yet, I still see raidleaders that feel its more fun to find 'their own way' to do it.... which is probably pretty fun, but I guess the same can be said for playing strip poker with your eyes closed. Makes it hard to see the cards.

/endwalloftext

[DaLeetPawner]

Were a semi-hardcore guild on our server and 25 mans are more then fine.

But in alot previous guilds I indeed find people gquitting because the leadership and loot system is totally out control (As in: Lol Loot Council! Guess where loot goes...?)

[nekobaka]

My guild just gets screwed over by all the people that want to come to the easy content and dont want to give it their all to down the new bosses and then not show up for the second raid night. ToC has seemed to have changed a lot of raiders perspective on raiding, progression and loot.

[Sesshou]

Were a semi-hardcore guild on our server and 25 mans are more then fine.

But in alot previous guilds I indeed find people gquitting because the leadership and loot system is totally out control (As in: Lol Loot Council! Guess where loot goes...?)

I agree with the bad leadership part there. I disagree with your opinion about loot. Loot council is better at keeping the guild going because you give loot to those who you know will be using it to help your guild progress. Yes, it can be abused but in the case where the loot council is being abused it goes back to your original point of bad leadership. If your leadership is bad, your guild will fail anyway so the loot won't matter at that point. If your leadership is good, you will be gearing people who show up for progression and giving loot to who gets the biggest upgrade and not to whoever has the most points on whatever point system you use which may not be that much of an upgrade or may go to a person who doesn't show up for the vast majority of progression nights.

Can you get by with points, yeah a lot of good guilds do it. It is just as exploitable as any other loot system.

Anyway, my point is that your "As in: Lol Loot Council! Guess where loot goes...?" comment is actually a leadership problem of the guild, it is not an actual loot system problem. That loot system, and many others, potentially work really well, your leadership can still be terribad and screw it up.

[absent]

Currently what is happening isn't because of ICC itself, its how wow has always been. This is the last tier of content, it is sure to be the most challenging (see sunwell). Now that being said, currently guilds are collapsing because they are getting stuck on NORMAL mode bosses. These guilds house exceptional players who have had the wool pulled over there eyes by carrying the lesser players through hardmode content (see togc, see 3drake, see the first 5 ulduar hm's). These new encounters, specifically the wing end bosses, really exploit weak players as they cannot fly under the radar and will eventually have to take on a role to succesfully kill the boss (see blood queen).

To good->exceptional players these encounters are trivial at best, but to guilds who have a few bad raiders this is very strenuous and frustrating!! Often a night wiping on a normal mode boss all night can discourage your exceptional raiders, especially when they are playing flawless. Why settle for mediocrity if you can have a shorter stress-free raid week?

Post of the year.

[letstalklikepirates]

Is this your first time encountering guild drama? Guilds break up for the most idiotic things. One top guild on my server broke up because noone wanted to take the title of guild leader, even when they didn't do anything but passout loot and remind everyone of the raid schedule that has been the same for a year, there was even 60k in the guild bank to tempt you in addition to ninjaing any mounts that drop!

Its an MMO. Its a drama lure. Heres a tip, never ever join a guild with a female in it who is in a high ranking possition, especially if its the GM's wife. The drama generated from women + guild drama = pure, concentrated fail. Another great guild on my server broke up because the GM decided to promote this 40 year old woman who was an excellent healer to officer, then some guys decided to have their daily conversation about women so they eventually started a flame war with the woman who was scared her 7 year old child watching TV would see it, and the same conversation was going on every day the woman was online only this day she was an officer. She ended up kicking those guys not taking into account the fact that her child is 7 and probably can't read at the level it would take to understand WoW chat (WoW players talk at a 3rd grade level, not a 1st grade level). GM got back online on an alt, flame war errupted against woman, said he was going to kick her, logged to get on GM alt then she had already kicked everyone by the time he got online and stole what she could from the bank. Everyone was pissed and didn't come back.


If not for every woman in ensidia being a man then I think it would have turned to hell fast

[Zodiak]

Theres nothing you can do evade that guild drama. After 5 years of my guild been alive we found a great way to evade that. /gkick . If you think you are better than the rest of the guild.../gkick . After a few months of been rejected they will probably leave the game... and I will laugh. If you joined us to get free lots without proving you are worth it... /gkick . My guild doesnt waste effort to those that do not want to become better, if you are doing something wrong we show how to do it right, and if you dont listen and keep fking up, goodbye. We dont mind new people, but please, sometimes you just have to punch people to make them listen.

[partshark]

Yes, this does happen.

It happened to my homeserver in both Vanilla and TBC and most of our hardcore raiders from that period in time are not on the server anymore. And we have had little progress, and due to lacking a top 100 guild (hordeside, don't know about alliance) we get no hardcore transfers onto the server.

This leaves us with a void where the 'best' guilds disband over and over and over again, more people who might have the wherewithall to take down the Lich King leave server and we have even FEWER people doing 25 man content.

Thus we are a server with many 10 man guilds.

What's funny is my guild is massively casual, but we actually contain a core group of some of the hardcore people left over from Vanilla. We have no issue wiping (even wiping on content that other guilds may or may not be getting down, and even wiping for an entire night), even though many of the fights are a gear check (Festergut, for example generally gets killed about 10 seconds before enrage due to our lack of DPS, due to bad drops EVERY FREAKING WEEK) - but we know better than to try and recruit from the pool of "the grass is greener" baddies that cover the server.

We've had a few people jump ship who were recruited in the past, and they change guilds every 2 weeks. They're not really progressing, they're just hoping that they can find a guild that 'doesn't suck' - which is laughable, we all suck.

The only way our server could turn itself around would be for a hardcore team to transfer to our server with the express desire to steal our Kingslayer/othertitlethatIcan'trecall once their 3 months is up (probably what's going to happen, many of our major titles were stolen that way) - have their presence there be so widely known that we get massive transfers to join their 'awesome' team who get rejected and make their own "well if they don't like us, we'll just do it ourselves" who actually make a few good guilds that actually get through the content, and draw out all the people who don't suck from all the ten man guilds on server...and THEN we might we a proper LK kill before his soon-to-be massive nerfs.

But that's not going to happen, because no one gives a CRAP about Runetotem US.

WHAT?!?! How DARE you imply that Gimped (A) limped away.
Or that Prestige (A) disappeared overnight because the MT quit.
Or that TYS (H) uh... wait, wtf happened to TYS... or My Little Pwnies.

Goddamn, Runetotem sucked...

[fapjackmasta]

i was stunned by this as well actually. ive gone through 2 guilds since 3.2 hit and am currently guildless. i didnt leave either of them but they disbanded on their own... maybe the depressing mood of ICC is causing everyone to want to be a loner or something lol

[Thetrollific]

Apparently people were expecting ICC to be roflstomp easy like TOC?
Or is being in a top 500 guild really that big of a deal?
Or is wiping/putting in 20+ attempts on a boss unacceptable?
Or people just can't stick together without causing political drama that ultimately ends in seperation?

I just don't understand. ICC isn't that hard it certainly isn't even close to as difficult as any pre wotlk raids

Maybe I am just seeing things/ seeing a biased perspective from servers that are having these problems, but I feel like this is occurring more and more frequently.

What my guild does, even though we are not completely hardcore, mostly retired hardcores just raiding for fun rather than competition is we raid 2 times a week for probably about 8 hours total, we give it our all and see how far we progress, and it did actually cause legit guild drama resulting in a group creating a hardcore guild that was offspring of ours./ The reason i think is taht they have made raiding so easy now that people expect to knockout the entire raid on normal within the first night attempting it, and because of that it makes it really hard for a guild to maintain its members.