Mages in a bad place...

[elph122]

Haven't seen the mechanics of the fight, but two 13th's, a 14th, and a 15th for mages in the lich king fight (per recount on the front page, vodka and paragon guilds). Sweet spots for a pure dps class.......

[Ðuracell]

I'm betting they have to change thier rotation because of how long the fight is, or they're going oom at least once the entire fight even after using CDs.

[Helmarn]

So because of 2 Recount meters in the entire world on one specific fight, the entire mage class is now nerfed and bad?
yes......that makes sense.
fights are different I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[elph122]

Didn't say they were nerfed, just in a bad place for most of the instance. And don't fret, I am not overly worried. I would love to see a full ICC clear recount (bosses only). I would bet mages aren't in the top 7.

[Risura]

I myself wondered why the mages were so far down the list.

Just one of those fights, no need to worry yet.

[ripponesan]

1. Meanwhile it is known that somewhen in the fight someonen is beeing teleported to another room. And we all know how recount behaves in such cases. Maybe the one who took that recount was in that room, or the mages,or whatever.

2. I dont know the fight to its basic mechanics either yet,just seen that video from Blood Legion.But maybe the mages had to do adds,switch targets often and fast,which actually is known for gimping someones DPS. But still the task is important and has to be done by someone. If i can contribute my raid in this way i will gratefully take the task. I mean you dont let do an affliction lick those bloodbeast from saurfang either do you?
A bursting arcane mage is just better for this job even if he gimps his overall DPS due to not debuffed targets, switching, maybe even blinking if you cant get the bloodbeast killed in time.

3. I dont know about the mages you have along,maybe they dont have 4piece T10 bonus yet(Yarrrrr BIGBOOST), or just some other problem(no insult).
But in ICC there are even quite a lot of fight were mages can battle the meters with rogues or even top them, sometimes even top them by fare.G.Bloodqueen.

I dont really think there is a Problemwith mages and their DPS we have great potential just need to get it done.

[Antik]

I died, also, warlocks are overpowered, so whatever.

[Skarrd]

Mages do quite well is pretty much all of the rest of ICC. Although I'd rather all of the 4 attempt limited bosses be somewhere that I'm valuable in, especially H arthas, I can't exactly complain when I'm doing well on the fights I've been to.

[Helmarn]

I died, also, warlocks are overpowered, so whatever.

Warlocks are overpowered? Nah, we're finally on par with mages now. I understand that in Sunwell mages sucked thanks to Blizz and I'm sorry about that. The reason I say I understand is that I only started playing WoW in September of '08, and I dinged 58 the day WotLK came out.

Ideally I would like to see all classes actually balanced so we could actually use the "bring the player not the class" strategy but we all know that isn't completely the case (e.g. Shaman for Bloodlust/Heroism).

And as stated before there are a lot of different fights and fight mechanics that have to be contended with so to base this claim that mages might be in a bad spot solely on one fight shouldn't be a cornerstone for this argument.

Being the top dps AND damage dealer is nice if it happens, boss going down and me having a contributing factor to it is more satisfying.

[Skarrd]

Both meters have warlocks on top and mages on bottom. I don't know the fight in either 10 or 25 yet, so I can't speculate as to why, but I doubt it's a coincidence. It's just not a fight that favors mages, I suppose. I'll just have to carry deeps on 3/4 of the attempt bosses /epeen

[DirewolfX]

I'll add that low DPS doesn't mean low contribution. Take Saurfang: mages killing blood beasts will generally perform at less than their full potential, especially compared to many melee classes which just full time DPS. However, I'd argue that the damage we are doing is more important to the success of the fight than damage the melee are contributing.

(Speculation) It sounds like there is at least one phase where you need to switch and burst down adds quickly. Warlocks are probably rolling dots on everything, while mages switch to burst down the adds. You'll notice the druids are pretty low too. The target switching is probably killing feral DPS, also.

[Antik]

Warlocks are overpowered? Nah, we're finally on par with mages now. I understand that in Sunwell mages sucked thanks to Blizz and I'm sorry about that. The reason I say I understand is that I only started playing WoW in September of '08, and I dinged 58 the day WotLK came out.

Ideally I would like to see all classes actually balanced so we could actually use the "bring the player not the class" strategy but we all know that isn't completely the case (e.g. Shaman for Bloodlust/Heroism).

And as stated before there are a lot of different fights and fight mechanics that have to be contended with so to base this claim that mages might be in a bad spot solely on one fight shouldn't be a cornerstone for this argument.

Being the top dps AND damage dealer is nice if it happens, boss going down and me having a contributing factor to it is more satisfying.

A non-awful warlock could keep up with every other pure class. They may not be overpowered now (that was just me trolling a bit), but they will be with more buffs.

[Antik]

I'll add that low DPS doesn't mean low contribution. Take Saurfang: mages killing blood beasts will generally perform at less than their full potential, especially compared to many melee classes which just full time DPS. However, I'd argue that the damage we are doing is more important to the success of the fight than damage the melee are contributing.

(Speculation) It sounds like there is at least one phase where you need to switch and burst down adds quickly. Warlocks are probably rolling dots on everything, while mages switch to burst down the adds. You'll notice the druids are pretty low too. The target switching is probably killing feral DPS, also.

This post.

[Deleted]

How have you not figured it out?

AOE. Go Fire/FFB and LB every add that pops up (Or even just keep LB up on the main add) and you'll be top DPS. Thats why the Warlock's are top of the damage (keeping dot's up on everything and DK's (spreading dieseases + blood boil). All because of the AOE damage.

From the live streams/videos that I've watched of Arthas 10 and 25 there have been only been 2 Fire mages in the videos I've watched (not in the same video). They both ended up in the top 3 overall damage done yet the Arcane mages have ended up in the bottom half of meters.

As already mentioned, being in the bottom half or low down the meters doesn't mean they aren't contributing to the fight. Too many people are fixated on being top of DPS all the time. Hopefully Arthas is a fight where, like Yogg, it doesn't matter where you end up on the meters. All that matters is that you participated, did your job and contributed towards the kill. Obviously some classes are going to be top and it would be nice to see yourself top, but who cares. So long as the boss is dead and I get my phat lewtz I don't care.

[Antik]

How have you not figured it out?

AOE. Go Fire/FFB and LB every add that pops up (Or even just keep LB up on the main add) and you'll be top DPS. Thats why the Warlock's are top of the damage (keeping dot's up on everything and DK's (spreading dieseases + blood boil). All because of the AOE damage.

From the live streams/videos that I've watched of Arthas 10 and 25 there have been only been 2 Fire mages in the videos I've watched (not in the same video). They both ended up in the top 3 overall damage done yet the Arcane mages have ended up in the bottom half of meters.

Watching videos gives you exactly 0% understanding of the fight, and how it plays out. Conjecture is fine, but don't assume people haven't figured things out.

[Deleted]

Watching videos gives you exactly 0% understanding of the fight, and how it plays out. Conjecture is fine, but don't assume people haven't figured things out.

Ofcourse watching videos give you an understanding of the fight you idiot, or do you just put tankspot videos on and youtube videos of bossfights then just dribble at them without watching what goes on?

I also assume people haven't figured things out as they post stupid things like assuming being top of DPS meters is the most important part of participating in a boss kill, especially when they <quote> "Don't know the mechanics of the fight" </quote>. If you don't know the mechanics, don't comment.

[Limse]

Both meters have warlocks on top and mages on bottom. I don't know the fight in either 10 or 25 yet, so I can't speculate as to why, but I doubt it's a coincidence. It's just not a fight that favors mages, I suppose. I'll just have to carry deeps on 3/4 of the attempt bosses /epeen

I guess the reason is because there's comes alot of adds throughout the fight and most locks go affli. They just DoT up everything and spam SoC.

The reason mages is so low is kinda for the same reason, since most classes got AoE abilities which also deals good dmg on single target. for example:
Shadow priest: Mind Sear
Locks: DoT's + SoC
Death Knights: Diseases + DaD

you get my point

[liamliam]

Ofcourse watching videos give you an understanding of the fight you idiot, or do you just put tankspot videos on and youtube videos of bossfights then just dribble at them without watching what goes on?

I also assume people haven't figured things out as they post stupid things like assuming being top of DPS meters is the most important part of participating in a boss kill, especially when they <quote> "Don't know the mechanics of the fight" </quote>. If you don't know the mechanics, don't comment.

You mustn't know who you quoted -.-

[Deleted]

Not that it really matters who he is, but ofcourse I know who he is. He's from Vodka. So fucking what?

Anyone who says you don't get an understanding of boss mechanics by doing research and watching videos needs to get off their high horse and stop being such a self righteous prick. Just because they get first looks, and first continental kills on a boss, doesn't mean other people don't have an "understanding" of any fight and its mechanics in the game, with the vast majority of information available so quickly nowadays.

[Skarrd]

Not that it really matters who he is, but ofcourse I know who he is. He's from Vodka. So fucking what?

Anyone who says you don't get an understanding of boss mechanics by doing research and watching videos needs to get off their high horse and stop being such a self righteous prick. Just because they get first looks, and first continental kills on a boss, doesn't mean other people don't have an "understanding" of any fight mechanics in the game, with the vast majority of information available so quickly nowadays.

I think it's fairly obvious to say that nobody actually thinks you gain nothing from watching videos. Anyone who can actually read into what somebody is saying, and not just the literal words, would know that the message was "videos are one thing, practicing the fight is something completely different." I'm sure you agree with that message. I've watched a shit ton of fight videos and none of them made me as good at the fights as simply doing the fight has. I still think firefighter is the best fight in game (though maybe heroic icc will change this), and I certainly wasn't awesomeprogodmode at that fight just from watching videos.