gemming str/haste?

[Xiangnala]

Once I get my 4pc T10, I've heard that it's worth it to switch from str/crit to str/haste gems in yellow slots(if the socket bonus is good enough, of course). Now, I know I"m not there yet, but I was wondering if I should start saving up my JC tokens from dailies in order to buy the str/haste pattern so I can cut it myself, or if I shouldn't bother because straight str (or keeping str/crit) gems would be better, even with the increased value of haste due to the T10 set bonuses.

Feel free to eviscerate my ignorance right after you answer my question.

I have several other characters that I regularly work on, so I don't do my dailies every day. Also, most JC tokens that I get I use to buy dragonseyes to sell them (buying all the saronite for my SE has drained my personal coffers).

[iktankniet]

best thing to do now is go check it with rawr. put 4x t10 and str/haste gems in and see what happens.

[Oberyn420]

I'm in the same boat, posted the other day but no one can really give a solid answer. I'm going to wait until someone has it figured out before I completely regem. Rawr has been putting out some weird data.

[iktankniet]

afaik it only get beneficial if you have 4x t10 and taiaj.

[Deleted]

i have done the math in Rawr using the BiS list from EJ with all plate items.

in those 2 cases that it is better to gem STR/haste than STR/crit, it is also better to gem full STR according to rawr.

edit: i am currently doing 3 sims, starting with crit/STR in yellow sockets.

update: crit/str gives 11011 DPS.

update 2: haste/str gives 11029 DPS.

update 3: pure STR gives 11050 DPS.

these 3 numbers are within the error margin, so it is not a big difference.

[Nikoll]

Str/haste is a very narrow window for a dps gain. And without taj you have no reason to look that way. But if you have taj than you are looking at 1 maybe 2 str/haste gems and str/crit in all other yellows. I belive ej bis list has 1 str/haste gem and all other yellow sockets are str/crit.

[Gauwins]

Once I get my 4pc T10, I've heard that it's worth it to switch from str/crit to str/haste gems in yellow slots(if the socket bonus is good enough, of course). Now, I know I"m not there yet, but I was wondering if I should start saving up my JC tokens from dailies in order to buy the str/haste pattern so I can cut it myself, or if I shouldn't bother because straight str (or keeping str/crit) gems would be better, even with the increased value of haste due to the T10 set bonuses.

Feel free to eviscerate my ignorance right after you answer my question.

I have several other characters that I regularly work on, so I don't do my dailies every day. Also, most JC tokens that I get I use to buy dragonseyes to sell them (buying all the saronite for my SE has drained my personal coffers).

When in doubt, Full STR it out.

[DDust]

So if I understood your responses correctly it's better to gem 20 str into every socket, plus one +10 stats tear gem for meta once you have 4/5 T10 and Taj ?

While with 2 pieces of T9 + 2 pieces of T10, no TaJ, it's still good to gem 10str+10crit into yellow sockets with a str bonus right?

So there really is no reason to ever gem for haste then?

Thanks for your feedback,

[Jin84]

AFAIK, the general consensus is that you can gem yellows with str+haste ONLY if you have BOTH 4pc and Tiny Abomination in a Jar.

[meag333]

AFAIK, the general consensus is that you can gem yellows with str+haste ONLY if you have BOTH 4pc and Tiny Abomination in a Jar.

The gains are so marginal you wouldn't notice. And honestly Im a bit skeptical of the whole haste/str gems anyway. I would continue to gem the way we have been, RAWR and Sims have ben hinting that pure STR is the way to go though.

[Deleted]

Str/haste is a very narrow window for a dps gain. And without taj you have no reason to look that way. But if you have taj than you are looking at 1 maybe 2 str/haste gems and str/crit in all other yellows. I belive ej bis list has 1 str/haste gem and all other yellow sockets are str/crit.

i belive that one ste/haste gem is only there cause in the sim they did it was enough to give one more hit during the time for it and if the sim had lasted 1-5 seconds shorter a stre/crit gem or full strength gem would have been better since one extra swing over 5 minutes is more beneficial than 10 more than 6-10 more strenght or 10 more crit rating.
shorter version that stre/haste gem is only there cause it makes you get one extre swing in on the boss if and only if the fight last the same duration as the EJ sim if it doesn't its not worth it.
im not sure though since i havent checked up how they sim the fight to get the BiS gear.

[Prentice]

i have done the math in Rawr using the BiS list from EJ with all plate items.

in those 2 cases that it is better to gem STR/haste than STR/crit, it is also better to gem full STR according to rawr.

edit: i am currently doing 3 sims, starting with crit/STR in yellow sockets.

update: crit/str gives 11011 DPS.

update 2: haste/str gives 11029 DPS.

update 3: pure STR gives 11050 DPS.

these 3 numbers are within the error margin, so it is not a big difference.

I can't seem to be able to replicate numbers anything like yours. In can't find a single situation where a 20 Str gem belongs in a yellow socket with a bonus of 3 or more strength. I read the posts about being able to sneak in 1 extra attack, so i went ahead and changed my parameters. I set the fight duration to 20 minutes. Surely 20 minutes of DPSing with the 20 Str gems would certainly outweigh the 1 extra attack scenario. However, even in this test with BiS plate (4T10/TAiaJ) Str/Haste surpasses Str gems by ~3.6 DPS per gem. This is a relatively minimal gain, but the BiS plate setup has 7 yellow sockets for a total gain of ~25 DPS.

Also, even if I wasn't choosing to support the Str/Haste argument, 20 Str gems in yellow str sockets are a DPS loss compared even to Str/Crit. Pure Str gems in that socket are the 4th best option behind Str/Haste, Str/Crit, and NMT. Str/Crit gems show to be an improvement of ~3.4 DPS per socket over pure strength.

Considering that my character is a Draenei, the 1% hit presence means that I am using the heroic version of Taiga's Bindings. By modifying my setup to include those bracers I have to use 1 Str/Hit gem and the rest are Str/Crit. The extra haste from the bracers reduces the need to gem haste and Rawr suggests crit at that point.

All of this aside, I want to know what settings you used to derive that 20 Str was always superior. It may sounds stupid, but you have to be missing something. The plate BiS list yields ~12.5k DPS. Your results are well below that. Aside from setting the fight duration to 20 minutes, all other settings are straight from the EJ list of settings.

[tawney]

I have 4pc t10, but no taij. Rawr tells me at my current gear level str/has is slight dps gain over
Pure str or crit/str for most yellows. I have played with it, and it appears haste is good up to about 400 haste approximately. I believe the reasoning is more haste equals more DS procs.
I would say use rawr to see what it tells you since everyone is geared different.

[Prentice]

I have 4pc t10, but no taij. Rawr tells me at my current gear level str/has is slight dps gain over
Pure str or crit/str for most yellows. I have played with it, and it appears haste is good up to about 400 haste approximately. I believe the reasoning is more haste equals more DS procs.
I would say use rawr to see what it tells you since everyone is geared different.

Try changing the duration of the fight and see if you arrive at the same conclusion. Instead of using the default 5min fight, try extending the fight out to 10mins.

[tawney]

Try changing the duration of the fight and see if you arrive at the same conclusion. Instead of using the default 5min fight, try extending the fight out to 10mins.

Ok I'll try that.