Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst
1
2
  1. #21

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    I'm using both. (Yes I carry several weapons with different enchants)

    In my avoidance set Blade Ward is brilliant for the "boost" to parry.

    Blood Draining however is the enchant I use for heavy hitting bosses or fights where I need to survive with blowing my cooldowns.

    The 30% save heal is effective to say the least considering it is guaranteed, whereas the Parry proc is merely avoidance.... avoidance is a % at the end of the day.

    In saying that what others have said here in regards to Mongoose, yes it is best overall but some fights require different approaches.

  2. #22

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Ori-Bal
    If you plan on tanking in ICC 25 then get Blood Draining.

    You're a tank, think 'survivability', not dps, not tps (yes tps matters, but below surviving & at that lvl it really should not be an issue).

    Blood Draining+argent defender+icc gear = much better survivability.

    Think like this --- you get hit, drop below 35%, AD procs, blood draining procs (trinket procs if you're using a suitable one), you jump above 35%, then Woot, next hit brinngs you below 35% again, AD procs again, yesyes, blood draining not only brought you above 35% but it also enabled you to take 20% reduced dmg on the next blow (maybe cause healers are being muppets and only got 1 small heal off).

    Combined with ICC lvl tank gear, you'll be taking reduced physical hits which works very well with the whole 'brought to 33%, bd proc, 36% (maybe helped with a small hit, or hot)', etc, you get the idea.

    Think survivability.

    Think outside the box.
    First, yes it could save your life in a very limited set of situations such as you described, remember the heal is <= 2k so basically its chance to save your life is roughly the same a druid hot tick saving your life (its unlikely).

    Secondly, the way you set up your hypothetical situation you seem to think that ardent defender only reduces damage that crosses you over the 35% threshold and that for some reason you need to get back above 35% to reset.

    This is not true, getting hit when at 34% health still results in AD damage reduction. The spell is really poorly worded, it should just say "Damage reduced by x% on all damage taken when under 35% health" which ironically is close to the old wording.

    In the case of a hit that pushes you from above 35% to below 35%, AD only operates on the portion of a hit that pushes you under 35%. Say you had 10k health, and got hit for 8k, the first 6.5k damage from the hit is unmitigated, the last 1.5k, the damage that pushes you under 35% is mitigated by AD. Thankfully with the new AD you don't have to worry about the leap frogging that could occur with the old AD.

  3. #23

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    They're both situational, but I prefer Blood Draining because it's a smart heal. Blade Ward has a low proc rate, and I found (in my own experience) that it never came into effect when I needed it to.
    By Blood and Honor We Serve!

  4. #24

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Chloe
    I prefer 26 agility over mongoose, since mongoose is alot more RNG and not allways there when i want it, sometimes mongoose saves you, some times it betrays you, and if you go for a "best-case-senario" on procs on CD, mongoose does give higher overall stats than 26 agility, but hey, thats best case senario.
    Mongoose is the best enchant, gives 2% crit 1% dodge 120 armor and 2% speed .
    It rarely falls off and if it does not for too long, seems to proc a lot for pallys.

  5. #25

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Galith
    To me Blade-Ward just looks great all around, it looks like a nice + to avoidance and decent threat (for a tanking enchant), but my guild keeps saying that Blood draining is MUCH better, but it just doesn't seem it to me. What is the common enchant for a paladin weapon? I just picked up "The Facelifter" off of 10 man Put. so.. what is the accepted enchant among the paladin community?
    Both are terrible! Blood Draining (Blood Reserve restores 360 to 440 health. Lasts 20 sec and stacks up to 5 times.) Needs a serious buff before any tank considers getting this. I think your GUILD mates are stupid. DO your own theryocrafting, look at the top end tanks. compare your gear to theirs/enchant.

    Look at most top end tanks, all of them use mongoose.

  6. #26

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Alright, ladies and gentlemen, some popular misconceptions regarding BD :

    "BD is EH, EH is king"
    Conditional EH is fine for an oxymoron, but it has nothing to do with the concept of EH. Stating that BD is associated with EH is merely a tomfoolery.

    "BD heals for ~2k"
    Yes, it does so when it actually reaches five stacks. In any encounter that is relevant to a tank, fully-stacked Blood Reserve is "a bridge too far".

    "BD is a smart heal"
    The only smart heal that tanks want/need is an Indestructible Potion, except for the encounters/phases in which the damage intake is exclusively magical.


    Summa summarum :
    1. BD is a good option when...
    - dealing with infrequent bursts, provided that the encounter permits the accumulation of the stacks
    - the damage intake is predominantly magical
    2. BD is a bad option when...
    - the encounter involves phases of little to no activity as far as the tank is concerned (or when the tank is subject to stun/incapacitate effects)
    - the encounter involves frequent drops below the 35% threshold (massive damage versus "nuke heals", commonly known as the seesaw mechanism)
    - the encounter involves significant AoE phases (yes, in this situation BD is actually worse than BW... and BW isn't exactly astonishing in AoE conditions)
    - the damage intake is predominantly physical

  7. #27

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Ori-Bal
    If you plan on tanking in ICC 25 then get Blood Draining.

    You're a tank, think 'survivability', not dps, not tps (yes tps matters, but below surviving & at that lvl it really should not be an issue).

    Blood Draining+argent defender+icc gear = much better survivability.

    Think like this --- you get hit, drop below 35%, AD procs, blood draining procs (trinket procs if you're using a suitable one), you jump above 35%, then Woot, next hit brinngs you below 35% again, AD procs again, yesyes, blood draining not only brought you above 35% but it also enabled you to take 20% reduced dmg on the next blow (maybe cause healers are being muppets and only got 1 small heal off).

    Combined with ICC lvl tank gear, you'll be taking reduced physical hits which works very well with the whole 'brought to 33%, bd proc, 36% (maybe helped with a small hit, or hot)', etc, you get the idea.

    Think survivability.

    Think outside the box.
    Some words in there i can´t agree with, and you just mixed it in with a tad of faulty here.

    Ardent Defender proccing in my world is the effect that saves you once every 2 minutes.

    On to the faulty part: you seem to think that just the 1 hit that brings you below 35% is reduced
    by 20% and next hits are not if you´re still below 35%.

    All and any "normal" damage taken when you are below 35% is reduced; even the one attack that takes you
    below 35% is divided into one part that takes you to 35% with no reduction in damage, and a second
    calculation when you go below 35% and that part of the damage is reduced by 20%.


    I think the tooltip on the talent just would have been too big if they tried to fit in a complete declaration
    on when it does work and when it doesn´t, like when "immunity/shieldpenetrating abilites" prevent
    the heal from Ardent Defender even kicking in before you go splat.

  8. #28

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Offhand
    Actual numbers would be a whole lot better for these arguements. "This one is EH" "This one is avoidance" and "This one goes away" are all entirely useless in their reasoning's without mathematic support.

    Otherwise, this thread is just "I use X and hate on others that disagree just because".
    Don't you use BW? Do you have math to share?

  9. #29

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    icebreaker.... cause I can.
    Quite often, the difference between an idiot and a genius is simply a matter of success rate.

  10. #30

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardolan
    Your math is way off, due in large part to being completely incorrect. In order to determine how often you're getting procs, you'd need to know how much damage your individual Blade Ward buffed parries dealt, how much overall damage all of your Blade Ward buffed parries dealt, and how long the fight lasted.

    I can tell you, however, that with Blade Ward buffed parries dealing a total of 4000 damage at 700 damage each, you'd have had ~5.7 of them during the fight. In order for those to happen every 17.5 seconds, the fight would have had to only last ~100 seconds. That seems far too short for a current tier boss fight.

    Also, there's no longer any reason to avoid Blood Draining because of negative interactions with Ardent Defender.
    No no its 4000dps not 4000 damage ^^ blade ward is 600-800 dmg per proc making up 1.3% of my dps. Was also around this value farming hcs y-day.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evilution
    Some words in there i can´t agree with, and you just mixed it in with a tad of faulty here.

    Ardent Defender proccing in my world is the effect that saves you once every 2 minutes.

    On to the faulty part: you seem to think that just the 1 hit that brings you below 35% is reduced
    by 20% and next hits are not if you´re still below 35%.

    All and any "normal" damage taken when you are below 35% is reduced; even the one attack that takes you
    below 35% is divided into one part that takes you to 35% with no reduction in damage, and a second
    calculation when you go below 35% and that part of the damage is reduced by 20%.


    I think the tooltip on the talent just would have been too big if they tried to fit in a complete declaration
    on when it does work and when it doesn´t, like when "immunity/shieldpenetrating abilites" prevent
    the heal from Ardent Defender even kicking in before you go splat.
    Yea im taking the Gunship trinket 5700 armour when drop below 35%, works out 12% phsyical reudction something (left my calculator button off today) aiming for it ontop of argent + i pop divine protection + my trinket (60 frost absorbs 6400) acctually used divine protection with OT down just after argent proected and trinket... the sheild acctually stayed up for the full 10second duration O.o.

    I mentioned that if my math for bladeward is wrong it will have to be wrong by about 5 times for it to compete with mongoose anyway O.o. Been trying to find a mongoose enchanter for 3days now damn it.

    Edit: blood draining proc will be used with argent thats all good and all but i see blood draining as a solo tank enchant... the enchant i dont see it saving u from a raid boss but rather keeping 1% avoidance up wont save you either but going to do awhole lot more to help raids if u *dodgde* one of them 15k hits.

    Personal Opinion

    Reduce proc chance to 25% dont use the parry rating on a parry and keep the dmg there for every parry while the proc is up would make if a verrry nice tanking enchant he'll they could increase mats if they want but i think thats a viable hotfix for the enchant... tbc enchants shouldnt be be best anymore.

  11. #31

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabetank
    Yea im taking the Gunship trinket 5700 armour when drop below 35%, works out 12% phsyical reudction something
    Not, even, close. For a tank sitting at 35k armor its worth ~3.2% additional damage reduction (70.986% vs 67.783%).

  12. #32

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Rukli
    Mongoose is the best enchant, gives 2% crit 1% dodge 120 armor and 2% speed .
    It rarely falls off and if it does not for too long, seems to proc a lot for pallys.
    Mongoose only maintains something on the order of 50% up time, depends on hit/exp/weapon speed, may creep up to 60%. "rarely falls off" isn't accurate. So its on average worth about 60 agi.

    +26 AGI is still the best enchant with a guaranteed amount of avoidance which can be preferred on some sets, such as anub add passive block set.

  13. #33

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by balloonknot
    Not, even, close. For a tank sitting at 35k armor its worth ~3.2% additional damage reduction (70.986% vs 67.783%).
    Hmm was going by my aura, got 3% or so when poped it on.

  14. #34

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by balloonknot
    Not, even, close. For a tank sitting at 35k armor its worth ~3.2% additional damage reduction (70.986% vs 67.783%).
    which is ~ 10% less damage taken -.- (29% vs 32.2% are the numbers you want to compare, 29/32.2 ~ 90%)

    Quote Originally Posted by balloonknot
    So its on average worth about 60 agi.

    +26 AGI is still the best enchant with a guaranteed amount of avoidance which can be preferred on some sets, such as anub add passive block set.
    Purely looking at EH 26 Agility is certainly better, but the insignificant amount of 52 Armor is rarely going to save you, and due to that you can just rely on the RNG of a proc that is faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar better than that.

    => As long as the uptime of Mungoose is at least as high as the ratio of it's agi vs the agi enchant it will be better most of the time.

  15. #35

    Re: Blade-Ward vrs Blood draining

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabetank
    Hmm was going by my aura, got 3% or so when poped it on.
    for 5700 armor to result in 12% DR you would have to be sitting at ~8.8k armor unbuffed.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •