[ENH] Do you die a lot in raids?

[xap]

Hello fellow enhancement shamans, i was just wondering, do you find yourselves dying to things out of your control or things that other classes get low to, but survive?

I know we have about 3-6k less HP than most other melee, and not a whole lot in the way survival moves since we use our sham rage on CD now, but perhaps it's just me..

[Sien]

I don't find myself dying any more than any other class, but I do come closer to it then I would like.

[Swiftninja]

Its called reincarnation, dont use it lol.

[outofrhythm131]

On average, our enhancement shaman dies the most in our raids. Nine times out of ten it's because of the HP disparity.

[Contion_BB]

If you believe the hp difference is the cause of our deaths your Mistaken...

I have survived multiple things that other classes die in...

Its called I heal myself if I see a situation coming soon that will be a stress...

FYI - I have the less Deaths in most Raids I run in.

[sicness]

If you believe the hp difference is the cause of our deaths your Mistaken...

I have survived multiple things that other classes die in...

Its called I heal myself if I see a situation coming soon that will be a stress...

FYI - I have the less Deaths in most Raids I run in.

While I won't argue that the majority of dying in raids comes from the players own fault, our lack of hp is somewhat concerning. Rogues in my raid have 4-5k more HP than I do fully buffed, while plate wearers easily have 10k HP more. When you consider how rogues also have more survivability in raids with Cloak of Shadows alone then there's a huge disparity with ourselves and the other melee that should be made up for imo. The fact that we can instantly heal ourselves at times if needed doesn't make up for it, especially when the other hybrid melee have the same advantage.

Again, I won't argue that our HP is the main cause of dying in raids, as it's typically player error and nothing more. However, a perfect example is Blood Princes where the majority of the melee doesn't worry so much about spreading out during the first prince's bombs but I find myself always making sure I'm 100% away from everyone or I die or come very close to it (within 1k hp typically). While this is attributed to the rest of the melee needing to be be cautious of me, I certainly don't look forward to this fight on heroic mode.

[pomop]

While I won't argue that the majority of dying in raids comes from the players own fault, our lack of hp is somewhat concerning. Rogues in my raid have 4-5k more HP than I do fully buffed, while plate wearers easily have 10k HP more. When you consider how rogues also have more survivability in raids with Cloak of Shadows alone then there's a huge disparity with ourselves and the other melee that should be made up for imo. The fact that we can instantly heal ourselves at times if needed doesn't make up for it, especially when the other hybrid melee have the same advantage.

Again, I won't argue that our HP is the main cause of dying in raids, as it's typically player error and nothing more. However, a perfect example is Blood Princes where the majority of the melee doesn't worry so much about spreading out during the first prince's bombs but I find myself always making sure I'm 100% away from everyone or I die or come very close to it (within 1k hp typically). While this is attributed to the rest of the melee needing to be be cautious of me, I certainly don't look forward to this fight on heroic mode.

just quoting you to add more info.
Not only is the health disparity fairly noticeable, but we have no defensive cooldowns. Ret pallies have bubble / sacred shield, warriors have def stance and shield wall/spell reflect, rogues have CoS and a few others (dont know rogues too much), DKs have frost presence and icebound fortitude, and shamans have.... nothing aside from grounding totem, which is not that useful in a raid setting. (Same with spell reflect, not sure what use it has but still listing it.)

[sicness]

just quoting you to add more info.
Not only is the health disparity fairly noticeable, but we have no defensive cooldowns. Ret pallies have bubble / sacred shield, warriors have def stance and shield wall/spell reflect, rogues have CoS and a few others (dont know rogues too much), DKs have frost presence and icebound fortitude, and shamans have.... nothing aside from grounding totem, which is not that useful in a raid setting. (Same with spell reflect, not sure what use it has but still listing it.)

Feral druids even have bear form/barkskin as well. And well we have two kind of, SR and wolves can both be used defensively but both are completely negated by the fact that we use them constantly for dps. It's really not the lack of defensive cool downs that bothers me though, it's the huge hp difference of us having caster like HP in melee range.

[pomop]

Yall do know that enh shammies have unlimited health pots right? They're so leet that you can still use double speed pot trick too.

The pot is called Lesser Healing Wave.

FWIW when raiding on my Enh I am typically the last to die for 2 reasons - I don;t stand in/near the bad stuff and as soon as I get low I hit myself with a heal.

LHW is not an OH SHIT button.

Plus, that means that druids and ret pallys have unlimited pots as well. Hell, toss warriors in there with a 10k pot every 3 mins.

[Lizeth]

Our on enh. shaman is always complaining about lack of shaman HP and MP5. It is pretty hilarious.

[XemnasXD]

i die alot. mostly to unlucky things like DnD is cast and as im jumping out of it i get hit with a shadowbolt. Now you could contribute things like that to player error but even if you react with 0 latency if you're at the center of DnD you're going to take at least 1 tick of damage then something like the shadowbolt comes and kills you. I notice that on fights where theres alot of random damage being thrown around my chance of dying go up alot, not to dumb shit im doing just to unlucky things+low health pool. If i was any other melee and that unlucky thing happened to me chances are i'd still have 4k health left and while i do heal myself sometimes i only do so in a situation where i feel the healers should be more focused on more important parts of the raid. I don't like the idea of wasting a MW cast on heals though as thats not my job and if im doing everything right and still have to heal myself then either i don't have enough health or my healers aren't doing a good job.

Telling a DPS to heal themselves would be like telling anyone with a sheild to pick up aggro if the tanks die or telling your resto shaman to cast lighting bolts to make up for poor DPS. The problem isn't the DPS not healing themselves, its healers not healing the DPS right+ our lower than normal health pool and lack of defensive skills. So i don't think the solution to our low health pool and overall squishiness is lolhealyourselfduh thats really not addressing the problem and we shouldn't have to sacrifice dps cause blizzard gave us shitty health, something they said themselves they didn't have a reason for...

[sicness]

Yall do know that enh shammies have unlimited health pots right? They're so leet that you can still use double speed pot trick too.

The pot is called Lesser Healing Wave.

FWIW when raiding on my Enh I am typically the last to die for 2 reasons - I don;t stand in/near the bad stuff and as soon as I get low I hit myself with a heal.

And you do realize that feral druids and ret paladins have the exact same thing, yet they easily have 5k more hp than we do or more. LHW is also terribly scaled with enh gear, you're better off using normal HW.

[Kyndig]

Yeah we do have lower hit points than other melee but i don't thnk it's as bad as you make out. I see numbers here like other melee haveing 10k more or that raid buffed we have around 22k health and at least from my point of view thats not true. I have 27k health raid buffed and our other melee (plate wearers not rogues) have around 32-33k. Yeah thats a reasonable differencce but i wouldn't go as far as to say i die more because of it.

I'd like to see us with more health and defensive CD's but i honstly only really die when i screw up or the healers do. I will admit though that i do get low health warnings more often than i am comfortable with and quite often find myself wasting MW procs on healing just to be on the safe side.

[sicness]

Yeah we do have lower hit points than other melee but i don't thnk it's as bad as you make out. I see numbers here like other melee haveing 10k more or that raid buffed we have around 22k health and at least from my point of view thats not true. I have 27k health raid buffed and our other melee (plate wearers not rogues) have around 32-33k. Yeah thats a reasonable differencce but i wouldn't go as far as to say i die more because of it.

I'd like to see us with more health and defensive CD's but i honstly only really die when i screw up or the healers do. I will admit though that i do get low health warnings more often than i am comfortable with and quite often find myself wasting MW procs on healing just to be on the safe side.

It may not seem like much, but when the raid is taking heavy damage overall that 4-5k can be a huge difference. I can count several times a night that I get taken down to 2-3k hp or lower and that extra 4-5k would be a huge difference to me, especially with upcoming heroic modes.

[Caithy]

To be honost if you have time to heal yourself so do your healers,so your only gimping yourself by doing so, but yeah we have a LOT less hp and with the 2p t10 bonus we dont have a defensive spell either. I find myself lying on the ground a lot on trash that explodes, but it shouldnt make that much of a difference on boss fights with a few exceptions ( I get a SS on twins in togc due door tActic and I can take less stacks on sindragosa and have to stay FAR away from the horrors on lk25 when we have a bad transition). But like stated before most of the times you die on bosses its probably your own fault, but yeah crappy hunters who dont need stam&expertise!!

[pomop]

It may not seem like much, but when the raid is taking heavy damage overall that 4-5k can be a huge difference. I can count several times a night that I get taken down to 2-3k hp or lower and that extra 4-5k would be a huge difference to me, especially with upcoming heroic modes.

Exactly. And what makes it 10 times worse as i said before, we have no defensive cooldowns. If a rogue gets to 5k (equivalent of 2-3k for us) they can use CoS or some voodoo. (dont know much about rogues)

Or if a paladin gets down to 5k health (Equivalent of dead for us) they can bubble, or use sacred shield if bubbles on CD.

What do we do?

/raid heal please....
/dead
/cry

[Kyndig]

Ok i'll give that more Health would be very handy but i've gone through all the hard modes in Ulduar and ToC and survived without too much issue. I'm not trying to argue that we shouldn't have more health but more that we should be more smug that we are able to survive and put out competitive dps with this handycap

[sicness]

Ok i'll give that more Health would be very handy but i've gone through all the hard modes in Ulduar and ToC and survived without too much issue. I'm not trying to argue that we shouldn't have more health but more that we should be more smug that we are able to survive and put out competitive dps with this handycap

It's one thing when you know the encounters though, I'm dreading a few of the ICC heroic modes when we'll have to learn the niches of the fight and the best way to survive. In particular BQL, Blood Princes, Sindragosa, and Putricide I'm really dreading as I already take considerable damage in most of those encounters.

[Melonberry]

Exactly. And what makes it 10 times worse as i said before, we have no defensive cooldowns. If a rogue gets to 5k (equivalent of 2-3k for us) they can use CoS or some voodoo. (dont know much about rogues)

Or if a paladin gets down to 5k health (Equivalent of dead for us) they can bubble, or use sacred shield if bubbles on CD.

What do we do?

/raid heal please....
/dead
/cry

Then you reincarnate and continue dps. If the pally dies, he's dead.

And if you have 22k hp, stop raiding in blues. Stupid exaggerations like that are why no one cares when you qq about having less health. You have about the same as a rogue/kitty. (Note: kitties don't even have as good of aggro management as you, less dodge, no parry, and can't heal themselves because they have 0 spellpower.)

[Kyndig]

Then you reincarnate and continue dps. If the pally dies, he's dead.

And if you have 22k hp, stop raiding in blues. Stupid exaggerations like that are why no one cares when you qq about having less health. You have about the same as a rogue/kitty. (Note: kitties don't even have as good of aggro management as you, less dodge, no parry, and can't heal themselves because they have 0 spellpower.)

Less dodge? don't really think that is tru and our parry is practically non existant. Cats however have a decent amount of passive dmg redution.

Argh what am i doin this is not a cock war between cats and shaman sorry