Hold on a hot second [Ele] glyphs

[whowherewhat?]

I see all the top shamans using glyph of Lava still even though the FAQ states that ToW is going to be a better choice. These shamans have 3200+ SP compared to my 2828 however. I plugged my stats into rawr and ToW is still a dps upgrade for me over Lava (doh!) even with 120 additional SP (assuming a Demo lock with 4k SP buffed). Is there still a point where I should switch back to Lava? My armory is in my sig.

Thank you!

[whowherewhat?]

TL;DR I have Glyph of Lava but only 2828 unbuffed SP, should I switch to Glyph of ToW?

[Amana]

Why are you even using Glyph of Lava ? Do you still have your 4p T9 ?

[whowherewhat?]

Why are you even using Glyph of Lava ? Do you still have your 4p T9 ?

No i just never replaced it after i dropped 4pc t9. What i was wondering is since many of the top shamans worldwide still use Lava, what would be the minimum SP to go back to it?

[Shamanutra]

I am confused as well. I do not have any T9 gear anymore, just about to get 4pc T10. Do we replace Glyph of Lava for ToW glyph?

[Keloku]

Tow, LB, FS are the glyphs, Lava isnt that big of a deal.

Edit: According to ZAP, Lava = ToW at about 5200sp

[Bergg]

Lava is not equal to Totem of Wrath. It is lesser than Totem of Wrath, and it will always be.

"Top" shamans is extremely subjective. If I Flame Shock every target on Faction Champions, and let my Fire Elemental roam free, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions. If I don't DPS Snobolds, if I get Innervate and Power Infusion and Focus Magic and so on, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions.

There's a 99% chance that the "top shamans" you are referring to are nothing more than DPS cheese whores. They're not there to help kill the boss; they're there to spam buttons and appear good at the game when they end up high on the DPS meters.

Anyone who glyphs for Glyph of Lava is an idiot, because there is no PVE scenario where it is good. Don't use it, and please stop bringing it up. I know you want to believe that Elemental is deep and complicated and super interesting and full of DPS secrets and mysteries, but it's not. If you want to do top DPS, play like a moron; you'll achieve that goal.

[whowherewhat?]

Lava is not equal to Totem of Wrath. It is lesser than Totem of Wrath, and it will always be.

"Top" shamans is extremely subjective. If I Flame Shock every target on Faction Champions, and let my Fire Elemental roam free, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions. If I don't DPS Snobolds, if I get Innervate and Power Infusion and Focus Magic and so on, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions.

There's a 99% chance that the "top shamans" you are referring to are nothing more than DPS cheese whores. They're not there to help kill the boss; they're there to spam buttons and appear good at the game when they end up high on the DPS meters.

Anyone who glyphs for Glyph of Lava is an idiot, because there is no PVE scenario where it is good. Don't use it, and please stop bringing it up. I know you want to believe that Elemental is deep and complicated and super interesting and full of DPS secrets and mysteries, but it's not. If you want to do top DPS, play like a moron; you'll achieve that goal.

By "top" I was referring to Mek and Finnober and Mek's elemental thread actually answered my question (and confirmed your statement about ToW) albeit in a less patronizing way. Sorry for "bringing up Glyph of Lava" and making you respond to this post <3. I should have gone there first, my bad.

[Tombstone]

Lava is not equal to Totem of Wrath. It is lesser than Totem of Wrath, and it will always be.

"Top" shamans is extremely subjective. If I Flame Shock every target on Faction Champions, and let my Fire Elemental roam free, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions. If I don't DPS Snobolds, if I get Innervate and Power Infusion and Focus Magic and so on, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions.

There's a 99% chance that the "top shamans" you are referring to are nothing more than DPS cheese whores. They're not there to help kill the boss; they're there to spam buttons and appear good at the game when they end up high on the DPS meters.

Anyone who glyphs for Glyph of Lava is an idiot, because there is no PVE scenario where it is good. Don't use it, and please stop bringing it up. I know you want to believe that Elemental is deep and complicated and super interesting and full of DPS secrets and mysteries, but it's not. If you want to do top DPS, play like a moron; you'll achieve that goal.

Sigh...

[Release182]

I have switched mine to Lava, because we raid with a Demo Lock, and have seen a jump in dps since doing so.

[Gaftog]

I have switched mine to Lava, because we raid with a Demo Lock, and have seen a jump in dps since doing so.

1. Equip ToW glyph.
2. Drop ToW.
3. Drop Searing Totem.
4. ???????????????
5. Retain ToW buff with Searing Totem out.

[Bergg]

Sigh...

What? Are you going to tell me that I should be nice every time, after every patch, after every piece of new gear is collected, after every new boss is released, people come here to ask if Glyph of Lava is good yet?

Glyph of Lava will be good on the boss that takes 1000% extra fire damage. There you go.

[paror]

What? Are you going to tell me that I should be nice every time, after every patch, after every piece of new gear is collected, after every new boss is released, people come here to ask if Glyph of Lava is good yet?

Glyph of Lava will be good on the boss that takes 1000% extra fire damage. There you go.

You are making it sound as if tow is far superior then lava, this is not the case, the dps difference between them is not big + fights where there is alot of movement, lava is slightly superior instead of tow.

[Solecoor]

Lava is not equal to Totem of Wrath. It is lesser than Totem of Wrath, and it will always be.

"Top" shamans is extremely subjective. If I Flame Shock every target on Faction Champions, and let my Fire Elemental roam free, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions. If I don't DPS Snobolds, if I get Innervate and Power Infusion and Focus Magic and so on, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions.

There's a 99% chance that the "top shamans" you are referring to are nothing more than DPS cheese whores. They're not there to help kill the boss; they're there to spam buttons and appear good at the game when they end up high on the DPS meters.

Anyone who glyphs for Glyph of Lava is an idiot, because there is no PVE scenario where it is good. Don't use it, and please stop bringing it up. I know you want to believe that Elemental is deep and complicated and super interesting and full of DPS secrets and mysteries, but it's not. If you want to do top DPS, play like a moron; you'll achieve that goal.

You can do good dps while actually doing what you're supposed to you know... I also wasnt aware there were snobolds on faction champions :

But it comes down to.
1. Do what you're supposed to on the fight (usually requires movement, target swapping) and you lose a little dps, depending on how much movement, but still able to do 'good' dps.
2. Not do what you're supposed to (as u said 99% of top eles do), then die in a fire because theyre just 'spamming buttons', and do zero dps the rest of the fight, you dont get to being a 'top ele shaman' meter wise anyway, by doing the wrong thing and dying.

So wouldn't it make sense to get to the top of the meter you'd have to be doing something right.

The OP's was a legitimate question. Lots of elemental shamans look to the people who're top on WoL/WMO etc.. to gem/glyph/gear in a similar style. I'm sure lots of people who're at the top now, did it when they first started, so there's really no reason to be bitter about it. You could/should of simply just said that Glyph of ToW is better than Glyph of Lava because LvB only makes up a small portion of our total damage, where ToW glyph gives SP to everything, including LB which is over 60% of our total damage (usually). Or something like that..

[Arcsecant]

I think it was ZAP or some spreadsheet that said you would need 4000+ SP before glyph of lava would equal glyph of tow DPS wise. This was pre shamanism buff though so now I imagine you would need much more SP before the glyphs are equal again. Some might ask why would glyph of lava ever be better since tow buffs all your spells including lvb. I'm not sure but I think this is because of the crit multiplier on lava burst being higher than our LB's.

[Gilian]

I use ToW glyph. 10.3k dps on saurfang without flask.

I read Lava is only better with 4.2k sp (not sure if this is true). Maybe i have that much fully raid buffed with demo lock and Muradins Spyglass. But if you need 5.2k sp for Lava glyph to be better then it is kinda strange to see top elemental shamans with this glyph.

[Shalaman]

obviously it meens that they havent read any FAQ like that so they dont know that ToW is better now

[Chitzu]

Lava is not equal to Totem of Wrath. It is lesser than Totem of Wrath, and it will always be.

"Top" shamans is extremely subjective. If I Flame Shock every target on Faction Champions, and let my Fire Elemental roam free, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions. If I don't DPS Snobolds, if I get Innervate and Power Infusion and Focus Magic and so on, I will be top DPS on Faction Champions.

There's a 99% chance that the "top shamans" you are referring to are nothing more than DPS cheese whores. They're not there to help kill the boss; they're there to spam buttons and appear good at the game when they end up high on the DPS meters.

Anyone who glyphs for Glyph of Lava is an idiot, because there is no PVE scenario where it is good. Don't use it, and please stop bringing it up. I know you want to believe that Elemental is deep and complicated and super interesting and full of DPS secrets and mysteries, but it's not. If you want to do top DPS, play like a moron; you'll achieve that goal.

you're not making any sense at all in any of your posts..

LvB: 1323 / 100 = 13.23 = 1% x 10% = 132.3 (Glyph of lava)
LB: 783 / 100 = 7.83 = 1%, 7.83 x 11 = 86.13 (Glyph of ToW = 11% LB increase)

Now... Put that calculation into a fight with high movement requirements like Sindragosa, Dreamwalker or Putricide... will you get a full rotation off? no you wont, you wont get 6-7 LB's off between each rotation as ZAP, rawr or whatever tells you when you run the spreadcheats, They're not taking movement into account what-so-ever, so use common sense and do the math of the correct DPS difference between LvB and LB when you equalize them and take your SP into account.

This is the reason why top Elemental shamans is using this Glyph, cause they do their math instead of throwing our random statements that doesn't make any sense at all, and especially without a solid ground to why it would be that way, it's not the first time you do that, enough said.

Also, for the "DPS cheese whores" part, you're not helping the Guild to kill something if you don't know how to maximize your DPS while staying out of bad shit, good job not making any sense once again dude...

[Anabolic]

They probably have a demo lock in their 25m raid and thus don't even use ToW.

[whowherewhat?]

obviously it meens that they havent read any FAQ like that so they dont know that ToW is better now

The FAQ gets edited every so often. I noticed a difference in what it said so I came here to ask what was best <3

One thing that still nags me is what would be the exact math behind it, given the shamanism buff? Some shamans on my server ask me for advice about this kind of thing and it'd be good to give them a concrete number