The most effective talent tree in Icecrown Citadel

[iLive]

Hi mates...

Which talent tree would it be? I know example that Destruction's Shadowfury is very useful for Valithria Dreamwalker, and perhaps Demonology is better for Lich King encounter because of pet AoE etc. (not even sure). Sometimes a spec for an specific encounter is very inefficient, and therefor the spec becomes useless.
Explain what you like.

[benzody]

I prefer running affliction but for alot of the fights it is more efficient to run destro imo.

[Turtlezorg]

Demonology - spellpower to entire raid

[harky]

Without any sort of context... Demo. Higher personal DPS than Destro now on top of the most important caster buffs for a raid. If you want a different answer you need to be more specific, because Afflic and Destro aren't remotely close to the DPS gain of a Demo Lock in a raid.

[bigjenk]

Affliction for personal dps.

Demo for raid dps if you dont have one.

[iLive]

...If you want a different answer you need to be more specific...

I tried to not be specific, since we all have a different opinion about "effective". Some like when abilities becomes useful in certain encounters, others think highest personal damage, some think more of damage overall etc.

[harky]

You're going to get a distorted (and useless) poll result then. You're going to have people responding with what they like to play, or under the assumption that they already have a Demo Lock in their raids, etc. There's basically no way to dispute that Demo is bringing the most to a raid by massive leaps and bounds. At least not logically.

[Slotter]

Look at all the people jumping on the Demo bandwagon lol. Affliction is best overall although Demo is viable on a few fights. i.e Lanathel sub 35% - Soul Fire crits for 65k ftw.

[gherkin]

Demo is going to be slightly ahead for two reasons:
1) Demonology is mandatory for Demonic Pact in any serious raid.
2) People who simply enjoy the tree are more vocal due to years of being ignored.

That said, all three are equally viable.

[harky]

Look at all the people jumping on the Demo bandwagon lol.

Look at the person who doesn't understand why Demo is important lol. :

Figure in the DP buff and add that to personal DPS. Afflic is no where close to the DPS being provided by the first Demo Lock in a raid. The only exception is in melee stacked 10 mans.

[Bakis]

Demonology - spellpower to entire raid

Yup

As long as there is one demo, then affliction for being #1 dps spec

[Slotter]

I don't understand what Demo does?. Check my spec and my achievements son, then tell me I don't know what I'm doing.

In a serious raiding guild, especially one that is caster heavy, a Demo lock is required. We have two locks in our 25 mans and one of us is always Demo. In most ICC fights however, I have found that Affliction is the best "personal" DPS. Not on all, but on the majority.

[Xandrellas]

I don't understand what Demo does?. Check my spec and my achievements son, then tell me I don't know what I'm doing.

In a serious raiding guild, especially one that is caster heavy, a Demo lock is required. We have two locks in our 25 mans and one of us is always Demo. In most ICC fights however, I have found that Affliction is the best "personal" DPS. Not on all, but on the majority.

UR orc is cute and yeah I def agree. SBolt/SoulFire is doing well this minipatch plus the spellpower buff to raid is awful nice.

[tyden49]

Demo for me. At first i only specced it because my guild wanted me to. But its a really interesting spec. Timing you meta. Making the most out of molten core procs and dont tell me there isnt a person that doesnt like seeing 27k crits with molten core and meta up. Maybe even 30k if u have better gear mine is not the greatest.

[Nillo]

Demo becomes the best RaidDps spec as soon as your spellpower is a lot higher, than 10*Totem of Wrath and after that totally outscales every other spec.

That being said - if you already have a demo in your raid Affli would be my 2nd choice - Destro just doesn't offer anything of use (except for replenishment :!)

[Jenerena]

Two concepts: Raid dps and personal dps.

Now define 'effective', and you have your answer. Affliction does the best PERSONAL dps if you have a demo lock. If you don't demo wins by a long way, depending on raid setup. In my 10mans we only have 3 casters and it still wins due to the massive amount of spell power i offer, plus my dps is actually LOWER as affliction (by simcraft) then it is as demo (by 300 dps).

[0ldboy]

Demo for sure.The dps differences are minimized when one evaluates the usefulness of the build.Demo is hard,more life pool,real pet (you can use to stun one crazy add),fast target switching,and more important no need "let me alone with the boss".DP is not only important for dps,your healers say welcome too...Affli is best sim dps or best dps in "only one target let me focus it"...but i think is better Demo for the mobility and global utility,the "cost" of better dps is too much if you want to make a honnest contribution not a personal contribution with special treatment(affli dont switch,affli dont move,affli...let the guy MAKE the rotation he wants good numbers for wowlogs!!!)...but is only an opinion.

[Bakis]

Demo for sure.The dps differences are minimized when one evaluates the usefulness of the build.Demo is hard,more life pool,real pet (you can use to stun one crazy add),fast target switching,and more important no need "let me alone with the boss".DP is not only important for dps,your healers say welcome too...Affli is best sim dps or best dps in "only one target let me focus it"...but i think is better Demo for the mobility and global utility,the "cost" of better dps is too much if you want to make a honnest contribution not a personal contribution with special treatment(affli dont switch,affli dont move,affli...let the guy MAKE the rotation he wants good numbers for wowlogs!!!)...but is only an opinion.

I agree with your post but demo will not do equal on fights like Fester or Rotface (and certainly not Professor). On fights that favor warlocks in general like fester and rotface an afflictionlock played correctly and that includes critrolling and tricks of the trade should beat the demolock with a minimum of 1000 dps. Demo should always be the prefered spec as long as there is none but at the same time affliction should be prefered on DPS race fights where no spec suffer IF the raidsetup have trouble beating the dps needed (and there already is a demo).

[harky]

It kind of ruins your argument if you're trying to make a case for Affliction being useful, but you need to mentioned repeatedly that it's only true if you already have a Demo Lock. :

[Bakis]

heh no it has to be repeatidly mentioned as other have done as well due to the nature of this topic.
there are two efficiencies to talk about:

raidwise
dpswise (personal)

To put 3 demos in a raid would be fail
Putting 3 affliction would be as well

I would argue that with the same skillcap/gear among 3 warlocks, 1 should be demo and 2 affliction.