World First (H) Lord Marrowgar Kill by <vodka>

[Ryuko]

That means they have 11,5 days full time raiding for the last 3 bosses in ICC and if they are down they killed twice as much bosses then in sunwell. So you should actually double the time, but because they already did normal mode i will leave it at 11,5 days of full time raiding. But as i said before hardmodes should be made with concidering that people do normal modes first.

Oh you're perfectly right, Blizzard should balance bosses so that they need top guilds in the world to wipe on them for 5 days, "15 hours" (you love to assume the highest number don't you) per day before they can get killed.

Can you provide an armory link for your character so I can see why this is such a huge problem for you, please?

[Eik2009]

Can you provide an armory link for your character so I can see why this is such a huge problem for you, please?

See:

edit: and i am bored at work.

Following his own logic:
He works when heroic modes got unlocked, thus he isn't a real wow player, thus his opinion on the matter if wow is hard or not doesn't really count.

ps. only posting cuz i am bored at work too. U really don't deserve the time otherwise Gilian

[Gilian]

Oh you're perfectly right, Blizzard should balance bosses so that they need top guilds in the world to wipe on them for 5 days, "15 hours" (you love to assume the highest number don't you) per day before they can get killed.

Can you provide an armory link for your character so I can see why this is such a huge problem for you, please?

Unlike you i don't need to kill every boss in the game. I want to have a nice challenge and work as a team to down a boss. It's a great feeling.

Here is my armory: http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...mer&cn=Creasie

Are you going to prove me wrong by linking every achievement i don't have? fyi i quit playing when ulduar was out and got back when togc was released.

edit: Btw on armory i am wearing 2 p T9 because otherwise i am missing hit in 10 man raids.

Going to kill lich king normal this sunday and next week will be hardmodes for us.

[Gilian]

See:
Following his own logic:
He works when heroic modes got unlocked, thus he isn't a real wow player, thus his opinion on the matter if wow is hard or not doesn't really count.

ps. only posting cuz i am bored at work too. U really don't deserve the time otherwise Gilian

Lol, oke :P . You do really deserve this quote.

[tatienne]

fyi i quit playing when ulduar was out and got back when togc was released.

uhmm... isn't that pretty much the same? or did I miss an entire raid between ulduar and ToBore?

but if your guild hasn't even killed lich king yet how can you say the hardmodes are steamrolled?
yes, some people will have very little to do in 3 weeks and waiting for cataclysm but for the most part, people will have things to do. even you since I doubt that you'll kill arthas on hc in the next 6 weeks.
and even if you do, can you honestly say that you haven't read a single sentence on a tacticspage or seen a single second of a killfraps? because if you have, you're turning the difficulty of the encounter down by alot, especially time-wise

yes, normal modes are easier than they were in tbc. but still, hardmodes have proven a challenge and having gated attempts it's not just about having enough tries to let the rng actually win over the boss once but instead actually analyse the fights. them being on the ptr is imo flawed. yes, there will be fewer bugs and the content wil be out sooner but people will have a sneak preview of the bosses.

[Gilian]

uhmm... isn't that pretty much the same? or did I miss an entire raid between ulduar and ToBore?

but if your guild hasn't even killed lich king yet how can you say the hardmodes are steamrolled?
yes, some people will have very little to do in 3 weeks and waiting for cataclysm but for the most part, people will have things to do. even you since I doubt that you'll kill arthas on hc in the next 6 weeks.
and even if you do, can you honestly say that you haven't read a single sentence on a tacticspage or seen a single second of a killfraps? because if you have, you're turning the difficulty of the encounter down by alot, especially time-wise

yes, normal modes are easier than they were in tbc. but still, hardmodes have proven a challenge and having gated attempts it's not just about having enough tries to let the rng actually win over the boss once but instead actually analyse the fights. them being on the ptr is imo flawed. yes, there will be fewer bugs and the content wil be out sooner but people will have a sneak preview of the bosses.

And how can people claim it is hard when they haven't killed lich king on normal yet? I base my opinion on the progress that is going on right now, wich is really fast. And comparing it to previous raids and my own experience.

And what has kill movies or websites with tactics and the ptr got to do with this. These were there before also. Yes, they make it easier. I agree, but in other raids people had the same advantages so you can still compare them.

I also never mentioned icc hardmode being steamrolled. I am only dissapointed that it is cleared this fast. I was expecting some more difficulty. Then i said raids in tbc were never cleared this fast (9 bosses in 2 days compared to BT in 2 weeks and Sunwell in 2 weeks or so).

[Sellest]

BT in 2 weeks? Really stop posting crap :-*

[Ryuko]

Then i said raids in tbc were never cleared this fast (9 bosses in 2 days compared to BT in 2 weeks and Sunwell in 2 weeks or so).

Sigh...

I guess I have to pull out evidence AGAIN, since you're talking out of someone's ass.

Look, 9/12(75%) is one ONE hard boss involved, no one really cares about the other 8 bosses. The hard encounters are Putricide, Blood-Queen, Sindragosa and Lich King.

Compare it to Black Temple. 5/9 (56%) was killed one the first day. Then don't forget the shadow resist farming, this dragged a kill out just because everyone in the raid had to farm it.
So 6/9 happened 6 days after (total of 7 days), then after 7/9 after 8 days, 8/9 after 9 days, 9/9 after 10 days?

So if you would ignore the shadow resist farm, BT too ~4-5 days to clear.
So 100% BT in 4-5 days, 75% ICC Heroic in 3 days now.

In what freaking way does 1 or 2 days delay matter much?

And as previous poster already said, with limited attempts, skill and analysis matters more and just try over and over again until raid was lucky with RNGs.

[Quibble]

I am only dissapointed that it is cleared this fast. I was expecting some more difficulty.

so your dissapointed that the top guilds in the world, thats been farming the normal modes, by having atleast 2 raids, with half mains in each, to gear up people and have become far better geared than nomral guilds?

[Gilian]

Sigh...

I guess I have to pull out evidence AGAIN, since you're talking out of someone's ass.

Look, 9/12(75%) is one ONE hard boss involved, no one really cares about the other 8 bosses. The hard encounters are Putricide, Blood-Queen, Sindragosa and Lich King.

Compare it to Black Temple. 5/9 (56%) was killed one the first day. Then don't forget the shadow resist farming, this dragged a kill out just because everyone in the raid had to farm it.
So 6/9 happened 6 days after (total of 7 days), then after 7/9 after 8 days, 8/9 after 9 days, 9/9 after 10 days?

So if you would ignore the shadow resist farm, BT too ~4-5 days to clear.
So 100% BT in 4-5 days, 75% ICC Heroic in 3 days now.

In what freaking way does 1 or 2 days delay matter much?

And as previous poster already said, with limited attempts, skill and analysis matters more and just try over and over again until raid was lucky with RNGs.

Sorry, i didn't look it up. I just heard they cleared it within 2 weeks. So yeah 10 days.

They also didn't use epic shadow resistance gear, just green items. I doubt they farmed 7 days for that.

ICC still has more bosses then BT or Sunwell.

Now please look at sunwell progress. And how fast did they clear TK and SSC? I don't know.

RNG is so bullshit. Nihilum wasn't skilled and didn't analyse back then?

so your dissapointed that the top guilds in the world, thats been farming the normal modes, by having atleast 2 raids, with half mains in each, to gear up people and have become far better geared than nomral guilds?

Yes.

[Ryuko]

RNG is so bullshit. Nihilum wasn't skilled and didn't analyse back then?

Sure they did.

[vesseblah]

Now please look at sunwell progress. And how fast did they clear TK and SSC? I don't know.

Top guilds have always facerolled content unless it has been extremely bugged. SSC/TK took well over month. Half of SSC bosses were bugged but killable somehow by 2-3 best guilds, nobody outside top10 list got far there before first round of fixes and nerfs. Vashj was bugged and basically unkillable without exploiting it. In TK Solarian and Al'ar were ridiculously overtuned and Kael'thas just bugged in a way which made it unkillable before first hotfixes.

On the facerolling side:

BWL : 5 bosses dead first day
AQ40 : 5 bosses dead first day
Nax40 : 9 bosses dead first reset
BT/MH : full clear (14 bosses) dead in 3 resets
Sunwell : 3 bosses (all unlocked first day) killed in 2 hours! So much for SWP being hard...

[Ryuko]

I've pretty much said what I want to say. I still don't understand why some people would be happier if the top guilds take 5 extra days to clear an instance than previously (ICC25 heroic isn't even cleared yet...)

I'm done with this discussion. Feel free to get all upset that some other guild with people you probably don't even know, kills some boss 3-5 days earlier (if they even do this) than it "should".

Have fun.

[Gilian]

It's not like that. I just expected, since ICC is all hyped up and the last raid instance of this expansion, that it would be somewhat harder. That top guilds would be around saurfang or festergut now. But one day after release it's like, hey guild x cleared ICC 25 hardmode 9/12...

So i posted here that i thought it was too easy and immediately all the "casual lovers" go crazy. Trying to prove me wrong with stupid arguments.

The only real decent difficult fight i have experienced so far is the lich king. But that is on normal mode so that's expected. I will see for myself next week how hardmodes are.

[Deleted]

Hard Modes were hard for only one Patch. The Patch they were introduced in - 3.1. You didn't see people doing Freya 3 Keepers, Mimiron Firefighter Hodir Cache and FL 4 Towers the first day that the content was released. First week normal mode was cleared, 2nd week they started on HMs that took TIME and EFFORT. Something that seems to have disappeared from the game ever since 3.2 where people facerolled almost 90% of ToGC 25 the first day and if it wasn't for limited attempts would have probably cleared 100% by the end of the lockout.

How the hell do people consider 9/12 in 2 days "Hard Modes"? More like facerollmodes. Blizztards really screwing this up. All the good designers left for the new MMO so we're stuck with the idiots.

Btw, "LK best fight ever" - wtf? free 9% nuke at the end, and adds? Lame.

Blizz should have never introduced a gating system, and they should have made it that you need to down the encounter on normal to get to HC, exactly what people were asking for in 3.1, not introduce gating, pathetic limited attempts no-one but the devs liked, and "pwn the "hardest" encounter in ICC to get to HCs" who doesn't want some HC loot to get going with the wing bosses?

P.S. Blizz considers Saurfang a "free-bee end-wing boss".

[Kattias]

I believe Hodir's hard mode was actually done on the first reset and then they ninja buffed it after 2 people killed killed him

[Leipäkone]

Hard Modes were hard for only one Patch. The Patch they were introduced in - 3.1. You didn't see people doing Freya 3 Keepers, Mimiron Firefighter Hodir Cache and FL 4 Towers the first day that the content was released. First week normal mode was cleared, 2nd week they started on HMs that took TIME and EFFORT. Something that seems to have disappeared from the game ever since 3.2 where people facerolled almost 90% of ToGC 25 the first day and if it wasn't for limited attempts would have probably cleared 100% by the end of the lockout.

How the hell do people consider 9/12 in 2 days "Hard Modes"? More like facerollmodes. Blizztards really screwing this up. All the good designers left for the new MMO so we're stuck with the idiots.

Btw, "LK best fight ever" - wtf? free 9% nuke at the end, and adds? Lame.

Blizz should have never introduced a gating system, and they should have made it that you need to down the encounter on normal to get to HC, exactly what people were asking for in 3.1, not introduce gating, pathetic limited attempts no-one but the devs liked, and "pwn the "hardest" encounter in ICC to get to HCs" who doesn't want some HC loot to get going with the wing bosses?

Wrong, atleast german guild killed Flame Leviathan hardmode at first day and Thorim was pretty fast down too.

[Deleted]

Yeah ok 3 HMs, whatev, I forgot the dates, still only 3/14, not 8/12

Hodir's ninja buff was pathetic imo.

[Ryuko]

How the hell do people consider 9/12 in 2 days "Hard Modes"?

Hard-mode != heroic

Learn the difference.
Killing oozes on Putricide without slowing them down is hard-mode, heroic is the difficulty settings of the raid.

[Deleted]

Hard-mode != heroic
Learn the difference.
Killing oozes on Putricide without slowing them down is hard-mode, heroic is the difficulty settings of the raid.

Lol noob. "Heroic" is "Hard Modes", achievs aren't HMs anymore, you can faceroll them on normal mode without having to do HC.