Is it fair? Please ask yourselves...

[Goliat]

fair things?
justice?

theres not such a thing in real life, theres not such a thing in virtual life, sad but true

[Panoramixe]

I lol'd. The irony was quite amusing.

Then again, you put a "U" in behavior, so maybe you're from a socialist/communist country and don't understand what fairness actually is.

Oh god insulting someone for their language, yet not understanding behaviour is actually valid. British English adds a "u" to words like colour, behaviour, flavour, ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...es#-our.2C_-or

Anyway their raid, their rules.
I can understand their reasoning though, you don't want to have too many people of the same spec in VOA obviously.

[LanToaster]

It is in fact rude. And maybe unfair to you.

But it´s also his raid, and his Rules for his raid.
If you are the RaidLeader you can say "This or that item is Mine, you won´t get it" it should be OK if thats stated before the Raid starts.
The same goes with invites. If he doesn´t want (for any Reason) no Shamans then he doesn´t need to take one. And if he doesn´t like any other RetPala he don´t need to take themn.

I for myself wont invite 6 DKs to one Raid, because its ridiculus. But i am no loot whore so i dont mind to roll against a few people.
And i dont attend to raids with such egoistic rules just for the principle. But as i said: Their raids, the can do whatever they want.

[Bjarne]

It's his raid so he can do whatever he wants, stop crying about it and make your own raid!

[seam]

Yes it's fair. As raid leader you can set any rule you want. Hell, you could say you get all loot to DE if you wanted and it would be fair*. No one would go, but it would be fair.

People just think their too good to be turned down, I've formed and join tons of raids, I don't care if I'm turned down on my lock due to there being too many locks, because I do the same exact thing on my warrior and priest :P

*Assuming you tell them before you step inside the raid. Not while loot is going out.

[rantus]

Might be annoying, but it's actually a good idea imo.
People who are after the same items will end up in different groups so there is moree chance of getting it.
For example quite a few people on my server run MC, its not hard to make a group for it, and I do most weeks.
I don't invite people who want the Eye of Sulfuras, they make their own runs seperatly so everyone has a chance.
On a side note from this, I asked if I could have it to someone making a run one time, them saying yes, only to be kicked just before Ragnaros.

Also e.g. 2 VoA groups with one having 2 prot palas and another having 2 prot warrs, would have been better taking one of each then overall there is more chance for each individual to get loot.

Edit:

I lol'd. The irony was quite amusing.

Nice work taking the words out of context. Also a U in behaviour is the correct spelling, the American way has dropped lost the Us in words like this for some reason.

[muto]

No it's called strategy, I don't know how you can call him selfish when he is getting a 25 player raid group together that probably took 30-60 minutes to get going and getting everyone 2 frost emblems at the least. I would've done the same damn thing and I think anyone else with a brain would as well. Sorry for being such an ass but people not being able to understand common sense just irritates me.

[shetan]

I actually get this a lot with the raids I form. I refuse to class stack, especially early in the week. I take a max of 3 of any class and hybrids are 1 of each spec in a 25 man VoA / Ony...period. It ensures fair distribution of a non-tier piece of loot and minimizes the crying over loot.

In a 10 man, especially when a new boss is out in VoA, I will only take 1 of each class unless the person states they don't care about the loot as they have something better / the item already.

The simple reason is if I just invite the first 25 Joe-smoes who whisper me, then I'll have 10 of 'x' class and 0 of 'y' class and 'y' class loot will drop and is therefore, wasted.

[Spronny]

I encourage this sort of thing. Not the whole write a post saying your on one side of the story then later explaining that your actually on the other, but that when you make a PUG you can pretty much do whatever the hell you want with it. Unless it is guild sponcered, and even so there are still if this then that, then if you don't like what the leader will do, leave. If you a leader and someone doesn't agree with what you choose you can kick them, though GL keeping enough people in the raid.

[Vitamens]

It is fair.. At least you weren't invited instead of bein put on Master Looter and you helped them get the kill--to only see you item go to the raid lead of the same spec as you... It can always be worse...

Make your own raid, always the BEST solution and you can be the only one of your class/spec.. I do the same thing, no more HolyPallys besides me.. call it greedy, call it whatever you want--The bottom line is if HolyPally gear drops, it will go onto my Toon, and i win.. End of story..

[I stand in fire]

While I do agree it's a bad idea to have more than 2 or 3 of a class/role in a raid at the same time. But I kinda agree with OP, it is little selfish for a raid lead to exclude a player of the same spec and class so he or she can have an uncontested roll on a probable drop.

However, this practice is common place and there is not much we can do about it. Only thing that comes to mind is rather than complaining about it, lead your own raids don't be selfish about a probable drop and invite good raiders with the same class and spec as you. In other words, lead by example, encourage others to do the same, and hope it catches on.

In this care-bear world that the world in and out of game has turned into, a lot of people forgot that he world isn't fair. If the world was fair we wouldn't lose BiS gear to scrubs who can barely do 2k despite being in full T9 and emblem gear. If the world was fair celebrities and the rich and powerful will actually get punished for breaking the law. If the world was unbiased, we can actually trust the media that they tell the truth and not twist it for the sake of political propaganda or financial gain (MSNBC and Fox News are BOTH guilty of this).

Unfair and biased? Welcome to life, you must be new here. :-\

[sleepingcold]

Well when I form VoA25s I tend to limit 3 max per class and 2 per role within the class. So if its a mage, rogue etc I won't get more than 2 of them but I'll get 3 pali's provided they aren't all the same role.

Also if it's a class that can have 3 dif roles then I'll put a higher priority in getting one of each role if I bring 3 of them, although I'll break this if I lack a healer comp that I'm comfortable with.

This has an added benefit of trying to fit in every class and their possible roles(besides 4 different tanks of course) in the raid since I personally hate it when a Shaman gear drops with no shammies or tree gear with only a kitty in the raid.

I feel that this is fair for the raid, even if it might not feel fair for a person that got turned down.

[Netherinfern0]

It's his raid so he can do whatever he wants, stop crying about it and make your own raid!

Bit harsh, but pretty much this.

[Casculo]

Has anyone else who has actually read the entire forum lol'd at all the people still yelling at him for "complaining" even though he was the raid leader he discussed. All the "Yes it's fair lead your own damn raid you lazy bastard!" should have stopped after his post because he did lead the raid. You all fail at reading the entire forum before posting.

[agelos]

Loot whores in voa pugs? Pretty typical if you ask me. A lot of raids have been wiped because of leaders prefering to invite bad people rather than people with the same spec with them.

[ComputerNerd]

Do not limit the classes or specs for personal gain, bring the players and get over yourself if you cannot stand competition.
I have seen several where there is only one person who could benefit from a specific drop because they arranged it that way and is downright selfish.
Do not reserve a drop, just play the game for what it is meant to be, a cooperative activity and gain the gear fair and square, that will make you a better player than any gear will.

[Deleted]

I lol'd. The irony was quite amusing.

Then again, you put a "U" in behavior, so maybe you're from a socialist/communist country and don't understand what fairness actually is.

Stop being a dickhead, since you probably know nothing about socialism and I guess you haven't experienced it in real life either. As far as I know judging what is fair is subjective, and subjectivity is a personal opinion. Stop acting like you know everything best.

To the topic. Everyone who puts the effort in creating a PuG raid (I guess it is a lot easier to create a VoA and therefore isn't VoA included in what I am about to say) should be able to chose wether they want to gain some extra benefit from the raid, which could possibly be done by reserving some gear or getting boe items/gems with a specific value. Many of the raids which can be pug'ed easily are not very 'hard' skill-wise, but they are still rather tough and time consuming to form a raid to. Forming the raid is obvious the leaders job, and who ever joins a raid should just obey the rules the raid leader is setting.

[darkriver41]

Lol, ret paladins.

[Gorack]

Yea, its rather universal. Every server has people like this. I don't understand how you can expect to make a 25 man without getting more of your class/spec.

Well roughly its 10 classes and 3 specs for each thats 30 specs but thats not factoring pures and heals/tanks. So id probably say its possible to come close.

[Bullocks]

Sounds like a jerk who is too afraid to make a balanced raid.