Feral Spirit in Enh Priority

[Viziel]

Ive noticed as ive been getting geared through icc 10/25 i have alot of proc items/abilities. for instance the Ashen Verdict ring, x2 Berserking, and even my Vengeance of the Forsaken, which all increase my ap total.

Most of the simming threads on here ive taken the time to read say popping wolves if your first priority, but ive been wondering if waiting till at least a few of these proc then using wolves may be better since my puppies ap is directly related to my AP at the time.

Just wondering what others may think of this thought
(apologies if there's a thread out here for this already)

[Blackpowder]

aren't you from ensidia?

[SolSphere]

Your wolves will out last most of your buffs. Most of your buffs will also be up at the beginning of a fight.

beyond that the only things you could really count on are SR and Hero, which are easy to time with. And if saving your wolves means 2 cast instead of 3, then it's a obvious DPS loss.

That's two reasons why it's listed as first priority.

[Walktheline]

simply always use your wolves, when they are ready. Ofc you shouldnt do so, if you wont deal dmg the next 45 seconds ;> but if you know, you will do dmg for the next minute just keep on cd.

[Barawr]

It would be wise to know as well that the wolves' stats will change as your own change. If you get a proc while they are up then their stats will scale as well. You can monitor this by opening up your wolves in the character sheet and hitting a dummy to see how your procs effect them.

[BHX]

Barawr beat me to it

[Dokoran]

Yeah, you pop wolves first and then if you have an on use trinket, pop that right afterwards, not vice versa, it's a dps loss if you do trinket/wolves instead of wolves/trinket.

[evan_s]

simply always use your wolves, when they are ready. Ofc you shouldnt do so, if you wont deal dmg the next 45 seconds ;> but if you know, you will do dmg for the next minute just keep on cd.

Good as a general rule but not always the best option. If you know BL is coming soon and waiting doesn't cause you to loose an additional use of Feral Spirits using them right before a bloodlust with result in more dps. Same is true when it comes to waiting a little bit for a trinket or potion cd. You can't how ever boil these down to a simple rule as they vary from fight to fight depend on your particular strategy and even your raids over all dps.

[albuli77]

...beyond that the only things you could really count on are SR and Hero...

Just to clear a confusion of mine, but I tested this a little on dummies and SR did not seem to increase my wolves damage, or am I wrong here?

[albuli77]

it will, if you have 2p of t10..

My small test on dummies showed it not to help my wolves damage. Mind you the test wasn't very thorough. All I did was cast wolves 3 times without SR (not meleeing or casting, and not totems down) got an "average", then did it 3 times with SR prior to casting wolves and got an average. I know the sample size here is horrible, but I figured if SR did affect them I would see least some evidence. The differences were negligible, I think there was maybe a 10 dps difference between both averages which I just attributed to RNG.

Now I might have also been bias in my test because I had a hunch SR wouldn't help their damage since wolves scale with strength and AP, and not damage modifiers to me. If I find time tonight I'll test it out again and get a larger sample size, unless someone already has done this test and can point me to the data (forum search and google search didn't turn out with much).

Sorry if I'm derailing this thread.

[SolSphere]

pop wolves and open their stats window. Then pop SR and see if there is a difference.

[LyskaWF]

Why would you wait to use wolves until after you get a proc? If you try to wait you will have no wolves for the reaction time, lag time, and the GCD.

[Nikoll]

The only cd your wolves should wai for is bloodlust and an on use trinket if you have one.

[Deleted]

Wolves don't benefit from T10 2-set, neither does the Fire Elemental. Magma Totem however does, which is odd since you have the buff, not the totem.

[Moshy]

Yeah, you pop wolves first and then if you have an on use trinket, pop that right afterwards, not vice versa, it's a dps loss if you do trinket/wolves instead of wolves/trinket.

Are you sure its an insant update? Anyone know if its like dk/warrior talent that converts armor to AP that updates not as frequently?

[Tellaria]

Wolves don't benefit from T10 2-set, neither does the Fire Elemental. Magma Totem however does, which is odd since you have the buff, not the totem.

Searing Totem and Magma Totem are not considered as pets, but as an integral part of YOUR damage. Any damage modifiers that affect you will also affect these totems. This applies to the 2pc T10 bonus, and also to buffs like Tricks of the Trade for example which grant a flat damage % increase.

Fire Elemental Totem is a bit special, as the Fire elemental it summons is a "Guardian" (just like Boomkin's treants or the summoned ghoul of non-unholy DKs), so basically a pet with no pet bar, and over which you have almost no control.
Guardians scale with your stats AT THE TIME OF CAST, but will not scale with your stats afterwards if these happen to fluctuate. They are also considered as a seperate unit from you (you will notice that you can heal them directly for example), and as such Guardians do NOT benefit from flat damage % increases that affecct YOU, such as the T10 2set bonus.


So, to come back on Topic: Spirit Wolves are not Guardians, they are proper Pets. They have a Pet bar, some special abilities, can be controlled ect. Like other Pets (Hunter or Warlock pets, Unholy DK ghoul...), they scale directly with your stats at any given time. If you gain an AP proc while they are summoned, they gain their share of the proc immediatly.

The 2pc T10 bonus only affects the damage YOU do, not the damage of your pets. Wolves will gain absolutely no damage from using Shamanistic rage while they are summoned.

Regarding trinkets, any on-use AP trinkets should be synced with your Wolves summon (and Shamanistic Rage if 2pc T10) each time its possible.

Yeah, you pop wolves first and then if you have an on use trinket, pop that right afterwards, not vice versa, it's a dps loss if you do trinket/wolves instead of wolves/trinket.

That is entirely wrong. Popping a Trinket right before or right after wolves will make absolutely no difference, for 2 reasons: Trinkets are not on the ICD, so a trinket use does not interact with other spells. And once again, your wolves don't scale with your AP at time of cast, they scale continuously with your AP during the whole summon, so there is no point in boosting your AP with a trinket right before a SW summon.

About the OP's question, you shouldn't ever wait for a random AP proc to happen before you summon your puppies. There are several reasons for that:
- Any delay on casting Spirit Wolves can potientially result in 1 less summon during a fight, which is a big dps loss.
- Alot of AP procs in the game are currently on a 45 sec IDC and high proc-rate Model (the Ashen Verdict ring proc is a perfect example). Spirit Wolves duration is also of 45 seconds, wich means that you will usually get your AP procs once during the summon, but it also means that you're extremely likely to get those procs at one point during the Spirit Wolves summon. Since Wolves will scales with whatever AP procs you gain instantly, you wolves will fully benefit from them even if they proc later during the summon.

General tips for using Wolves, as alot of people mentioned earlier:
- Use Wolves every time they are off CD (assuming you're looking at 45 seconds of un-interrupted dps following the summon).
- If Bloodlust is about to be called and you know you'll only get 1 more summon out before the end of the fight anyways, save them and sync them with BL.
- If you have several Shamans and are using Heroism at the start of a given fight, ask one of your fellow Shaman to cast his BL/heroism at the start (make sure you summon your puppies first). 3 minutes later, you will be able to summon your wolves again and use your own BL/hero to buff them.

[Evilgopher]

- If you have several Shamans and are using Heroism at the start of a given fight, ask one of your fellow Shaman to cast his BL/heroism at the start (make sure you summon your puppies first). 3 minutes later, you will be able to summon your wolves again and use your own BL/hero to buff them.

I've tried convincing the ele/resto shaman in the guild to be the first to cast BL so I can BL my wolves on a second cast but to no avail. If only it had no mana cost then maybe I could. /cry

[Saverem]

Wolves don't benefit from T10 2-set, neither does the Fire Elemental. Magma Totem however does, which is odd since you have the buff, not the totem.

That's because Magma, nova and searing totems count as if it's your own damage (even though they show under pets in recount); they are part of your character and not separate entities like pets. The threat they do is part of your character's threat. Magma/Nova/Searing is as much the Shaman's AoE as say Blizzard is as much a Mage's, Hellfire as much a Lock's, Hurricane as much a Druid's, and etc.

The fire/earth pets and wolves however are not tied directly to you, they have their own stats and count as separate entities.


EDIT: Tellaria beat me to it. I really should read all of the replies before posting -_-