Blood Queen Lana'thel

[Kyul]

Hey guys,

Lana'Thel has some interesting mechanics involved (some old, some new), either way I really enjoy this fight. I was wondering, however, what does your guilds specific bite-order look like?

My guild has our best warrior DPS get it, and then when it is time for him to bite another player it will go to one of our top DPS hunters. From there the warrior will bite the other warrior [or rogue, if our warrior doesn't show up!] and the hunter will bite the other hunter.

Everything is going fine... then flight phase. We have been getting our positioning [ie: spreading the hell apart] down to a tee, however it seems as though these hunters will die 90% of the time during this period.. while the other 23 people have stayed alive. Before the flight phase we have the healers put extra hots/heals on them, but they still die!

Is it just because these hunters are doing something wrong? Or is the bite-order wrong? Also; it seems the hunter always has to bite someone DURING the fight phase so they won't get MC [meaning the hunter has to get close to someone else taking more DMG], is there a way time the bites better so the debuff wont be running out as the flight phase is going?

Any suggestions/help you can provide would be very helpful! Thanks =]

EDIT: First off - Hunters using deterrence worked well, thankyou!

For all those wondering whether or not the first bite is based of threat or DMG done - it IS threat. We always have Tank #1 and OT #2 and then our warrior at #3. To confirm this - last night we did a 10 man, and I guess I got a little too carried away at the beginning throwing tons of HOTS out, etc. Anyways, my threat got extremely high [lol, I'd never had this problem before- but it was a good learning experience] and I was the first one to receive the bite. I play a resto druid... I hadn't even done 1 DMG on Lana'Thel ~ so that kind of confirms the first bite is with threat, not DMG.

[Ashvael]

If you're talking about 25man (and I assume you are since the second bite will only overlap with the flight phase in 25man), you have to delay the first bite as long as possible if you don't want it to overlap with the flight phase. If the first person bites the second person with around 2 seconds left on the debuff timer, you will have to bite while she is landing and not while she's casting her Bloodbolt Whirl.

About the bite order. First bite is kind of FFA for us, then I (rogue) will get it and after that another rogue / DK for me to bite and the top range dps which is present right now (mostly mage / shadow priest) will get the bite of the first one. After that the order is fixed as well but I don't really want to type that all out now. :/ If you really want to know, here's the log of our kill yesterday. It's kind of easy to figure out who got bitten when.

[Kyul]

If you're talking about 25man (and I assume you are since the second bite will only overlap with the flight phase in 25man), you have to delay the first bite as long as possible if you don't want it to overlap with the flight phase. If the first person bites the second person with around 2 seconds left on the debuff timer, you will have to bite while she is landing and not while she's casting her Bloodbolt Whirl.

About the bite order. First bite is kind of FFA for us, then I (rogue) will get it and after that another rogue / DK for me to bite and the top range dps which is present right now (mostly mage / shadow priest) will get the bite of the first one. After that the order is fixed as well but I don't really want to type that all out now. :/ If you really want to know, here's the log of our kill yesterday. It's kind of easy to figure out who got bitten when.

Very much appreciated!! Thank you!

[Shiira]

If the same people are dying 90% of the time then it's probably time to replace them.

[Bowlarious]

A hunter can cast Deterrence as soon as he sees Lana'thel start casting Bloodbolt Whirl, and mitigate all damage from the bolts. Not as soon as she flies up, but as soon as the cast starts. Timed correctly, a hunter should never die during the whirl. Also, hunters with deterrence up can stand next to each other/bite each other during the whirl without taking extra damage from being too close, because they are deflecting all the bolts.

[Iosif]

Hey guys,

Lana'Thel has some interesting mechanics involved (some old, some new), either way I really enjoy this fight. I was wondering, however, what does your guilds specific bite-order look like?

My guild has our best warrior DPS get it, and then when it is time for him to bite another player it will go to one of our top DPS hunters. From there the warrior will bite the other warrior [or rogue, if our warrior doesn't show up!] and the hunter will bite the other hunter.

You sound like you guys have the right plan together for the bites, in our guild we use is someting like this. (Replace "Player#" with a name)

Bite (1): Player01 > Player02
Bite (2): Player01 > Player03, Player02 > Player04
Bite (3): Player01 > Player05, Player02 > Player06, Player03 > Player07, Player04 > Player08
Bite (4): Player01 > Player09, Player02 > Player10, Player03 > Player11, Player04 > Player12, Player05 > Player13, Player06 > Player14, Player07 > Player15, Player08 > Player16

The First bite always seems to be the highest (Damage) person at that time. For our guild that ends up being one of 4 people, is Player4 gets the first bite that just take player1 place in the bite order till player 4 is bitten then the order is restored to normal.

Everything is going fine... then flight phase. We have been getting our positioning [ie: spreading the hell apart] down to a tee, however it seems as though these hunters will die 90% of the time during this period.. while the other 23 people have stayed alive. Before the flight phase we have the healers put extra hots/heals on them, but they still die!

Is it just because these hunters are doing something wrong? Or is the bite-order wrong? Also; it seems the hunter always has to bite someone DURING the fight phase so they won't get MC [meaning the hunter has to get close to someone else taking more DMG], is there a way time the bites better so the debuff wont be running out as the flight phase is going?

Any suggestions/help you can provide would be very helpful! Thanks =]

Ok, your Bite order should always have your top 4 DPS bitten first, by default one of them will get bitten first then you propagate it out as I listed above. Once you have the bite order down then you have it made.

As a hunter I can tell you there is absolutely no excuse for a hunter to die on this fight, period. You need to explane to them that they need to use Deterrence every Blood Bolt Phase, it will allow them to deflect the blood bolts and take zero damage.


Useful Suggestion...
Because of the timing of the Fear/Blood Bolts and the Bite it helps greatly to have your first person bitten wait ~5-7 seconds before biting their first victim. This will offset your bite phase timers for the entire raid back so that in 25M you don't have people trying to bite during the 2nd Blood Bolt phase or in 10M during the 3rd Blood Bolt phase. Allowing for clearer transitions, less chaotic and overall a more manageable fight. Also delaying the first bite prevents anyone from the 4th bite phase from having to bite anyone prior to the hard enrage. We had a 150k wipe that would have been a kill except the half the vampires were trying to bite people just before the enrage.

[anyaka21]

add note to this ^^. Another way guilds are doing it is getting a ranged and a melee bit first. Putting tricks on a high dps or something to get the 1st bite. There seems to be a method of BQL's bite.

Thus you have a ranged and a melee bit. Then you have melee bite melee, and ranged bite ranged. Prioritize who kind of stands where. Higher dps towards the front and work you way back. Makes for less movement overall and less dps getting mc'ed because they can't find their target.

[BaddyMcBad]

Just go in and blow cooldowns so that you're number one and get the first bite like I do instead of being at the bottom of the priority list before tanks and healers.

[Shiira]

There seems to be a method of BQL's bite.

Everything that I have seen strongly suggests that blood queen will always bite the person below the offtank on threat. So if the offtank doesn't slack and stays in second then it will usually be your best dps that doesn't have a lot of talented threat reduction.

[Sarcasm]

Everything that I have seen strongly suggests that blood queen will always bite the person below the offtank on threat. So if the offtank doesn't slack and stays in second then it will usually be your best dps that doesn't have a lot of talented threat reduction.

I would vouch for this as well, if it wasn't for two rogues in our raid tricksing to our top DPS warlock, getting him well in second place for threat, and yet the bite still ends up going to a mage or hunter.

[Shiira]

I would vouch for this as well, if it wasn't for two rogues in our raid tricksing to our top DPS warlock, getting him well in second place for threat, and yet the bite still ends up going to a mage or hunter.

The warlock being in second place on threat is exactly why he isn't being bitten, read my previous post again.

[Alynnea]

Just go in and blow cooldowns so that you're number one and get the first bite like I do instead of being at the bottom of the priority list before tanks and healers.

Gotta say i strongly disagree here, misdirection / tricks of the trade is a far more efficient way of getting your top dps bitten first. If the first person bitten gets the double damage buff AFTER all their cooldowns have been blown, that is a large dps loss.

[Sarcasm]

The warlock being in second place on threat is exactly why he isn't being bitten, read my previous post again.

You said below the offtank. You didn't say the offtank had to be second on threat. Besides, our offtank never gets bitten even though he's third on threat.

[Shiira]

You said below the offtank. You didn't say the offtank had to be second on threat. Besides, our offtank never gets bitten even though he's third on threat.

I'm done dealing with you but maybe someone else with more patience can be bothered.

You're either trolling badly or severely lacking in reading comprehension and I suspect the former.

[crazerk]

Is everyone 100% sure it is 3rd in threat who will get the 1st bite? My guild's DPSers insist that it was the top damage done when the 1st bite was coming out that always got bitten. Initially we thought it was threat but we had someone who was 4th/5th in threat got bitten too.

How we eventually forced the first bite was just to get everyone hold off DPS for 3-5 seconds before starting except for the 1st bite target (a rogue) . Then he bit a ranged DPS, and as someone mentioned, carry on melee->melee ranged->ranged.

Also if you have a holy pally/priest, you can do stuff like D.Sac/AM for air phase, pre-shielding those hunters before air phase, throwing a prayer of healing immediately on the hunter's group, PoMend on the hunters, etc.

[Sunshine]

Is everyone 100% sure it is 3rd in threat who will get the 1st bite? My guild's DPSers insist that it was the top damage done when the 1st bite was coming out that always got bitten. Initially we thought it was threat but we had someone who was 4th/5th in threat got bitten too.

What people have been saying is *not* 2nd or 3rd on threat, it's the person on threat after the offtank (whoever has the Blood Mirror effect).

So if your tanks are first and second on threat, then whoever is third will get the bite. If your offtank is putting out less threat, that changes -- if the offtank is 3rd on threat, the 4th will get bitten, and if the offtank is 4th on threat, then the 5th will get bitten.

I can't confirm or deny whether this is true; I'm just trying to elaborate on what's actually being said here.

[littlepiggy]

I would vouch for this as well, if it wasn't for two rogues in our raid tricksing to our top DPS warlock, getting him well in second place for threat, and yet the bite still ends up going to a mage or hunter.

good mages generate zero threat before she bites someone, yet our mage (in 10man) gets the bite 90% of the time.. it's gotta be the person that does the most damage to her. as a feral in 25's, when i blow beserk (at the beginning of the fight) i hit 11k tps and don't get first bite, not many class's can out do that

[Deleted]

good mages generate zero threat before she bites someone, yet our mage (in 10man) gets the bite 90% of the time.. it's gotta be the person that does the most damage to her. as a feral in 25's, when i blow beserk (at the beginning of the fight) i hit 11k tps and don't get first bite, not many class's can out do that

You mean mirror images? If so, the mage generate threat just fine during that peroid, the threat is just 'inactive' for the duration of mirror images.

[Deleted]

It has to be something related to aggro and not damage.
Yesterday on our first try, a Holy paladin doing exactly zero dps got first bite (he had the +80% aggro buff on).

[Daedelus]

Whoever gets bitten is not decided by threat. On our first few tries we were engineering it so specific people were third on threat, behind the OT, but still other people were getting bitten.

It's also not solely on damage done, as we've had a resto druid get bitten once when he was accidentally MD'd (stupid target of target macro)

So it seems to be some combination of threat and damage done, but I'm not sure exactly how the mechanic works.