Crowd Control in Cataclysm

[Toothbrush]

I'm not going to bother reading the entire thread, but here's my two cents.

It's fine the way it is now. Sure, it's annoying that they're constantly dumbing things down, but with easy heroics it gives everyone something simple and easy to do when they're bored.

BC heroics were a pain. The rewards were useless to raiders, and too much work to want to do just for fun. Plus getting stuck with retards was that much worse. Nobody right now can say they enjoy getting HOR as a random, I've spent a ridiculous amount of time wiping in there because of how stupid the majority of players are. And HOR is still easier than most BC heroics.

Everyone's just hung up on a mix of nostalgia and hipster-ness (I PLAYED THIS GAME BEFORE IT WAS [insert something changed here].)

[SirRavin]

I thought in the start days of Ulduar we used CC on Freya Trash to make it easier.

And in ICC I know in 25 man our guild cleans up the blood wing by Shackle the rogues and other mobs to down them faster.

Maybe you don't "Need" CC, But it does make a lot of things easier.

Just putting in my two cents.

[allforone]

Right now the CC abilities are PvP only.

Considering that they are looking for ways to make the game more interesting without just making them hit harder, forcing people to actually use CC again would be the best way for them to do it. Yes it makes things "harder" but looking at about 90% of the posts about difficulty in here, I'd say that's what people want.

[evan_s]

I'd definitely like to see some use of CC in dungeons and Heroics but I don't want to return to some of the BC dungeons where you had to plan every pull and CC 2 or 3 or 4 things. That made things a major pain and left out too many classes that didn't have any or viable CC.

Back when Wrath was new we did use some CC in heroic dungeons because things were challenging. Since then the problem is that as a whole we so outgear all the instances that it really isn't needed at all. In the few cases where it would be useful there are often major limits on who can CC due to the types of mobs they happen to be, eg HoR with all undead mobs. Combine that with everyone being used to just charging in and aeing everything and CC is almost dead even when it would be useful to use.

I don't know that you can really fix the gear problem. When we are all t13 and t14 in Cataclysm it's going to be the same way for the initial cata heroics. Even the spell flingers that can still seriously hurt a tank don't generally get cced or even focused on half the time.

[Lathios]

I got HHOR on my DK tank the other night asked priest to shackle mage and hunter to trap hunter, they were both WTF! just gather them and we will aoe. I said "no lets actually use our cc"...they vote kicked me...lol, I should have checked and made sure they were not all in the same guild..: (

Yes bring back some CC like it used to be, force the new players to actually use their abilities...

[Sunshine]

I've thought that it would be neat to have full-size mobs like the little ones in old kingdom -- they have a buff called Swarm that buffs all others in the area. A similar effect could be created with different mobs that each have some sort of aura (increasing damage done, reducing damage taken, increasing healing done, etc), which is inactive while the mob is CC'd.

That way, it's much easier to kill any one mob while the others aren't around, but you can choose what level of CC is required for your particular group. If you significantly outgear the place, maybe you don't CC anything. If you have lower gear, you can CC one or two mobs, and it makes the pull much easier.

Any sort of CC requirement does make it hard for the classes without CC; even as a bear/cat, I had a hard time finding pugs for Magister's Terrace back in the day (because cats have no CC, and bears "can't aoe tank"). To compensate, either more classes would need CC (which would be hell to balance for PvP) or the mobs would need to be of different types -- many classes have CC for one type of mob (e.g., sleep, shackle, etc). It would be pretty fabricated to have an instance where every pull has an undead, a beast, a humanoid, etc, though.

I don't know what the solution is. I do think WotLK heroics were fun at release, although I think the lack of difficulty in the intro raiding tier took away a lot of their power. Most people outgeared the heroics with raid gear by even the second or third week of the expansion.

[Uglehpopsicle]

H Mech on my mage was always my favorite, When i was frost, and running with a fire mage friend of mine.

On more then one occasion we dragged the group thru by sheer force of will, that was Heroic, that was Gratifying, the Badges were "ok" they were a bonus, the real reward was having a group of strangers go, "Holy Hells, that was f*kn awsome, you guys rock!".

Tanks in Tbc usually had no AoE threat, my fire mage friend was an aggro monster, even on mobs being focused by tanks, it was always a matter of When, not If he would pull. I'd be in there to frost nova, followed by dual sheeps in needed, dragon breath stuns, slows, blink kiting, we used everything. We killed packs without heals and a deceased tank.

Wotlk.....there isnt much to say for it, I hear calls for "nice and fast", but what i really hear is, "This is boring, why am i in here, i don't even really need the emblems.". When Cata hits, and if blizz is going to reinstate fights that involve mechanics, like fleeing mobs (shock horror), casters that (OMG!!!) move out of range of the tank/melee, Improved AI so that some mobs know to CC casters/heals, then all the AoE tanking in the world will not help you, unless you can react on the fly.

Let us celebrate Wotlk for allowing us to go easy mode for a few months, then let us look forward to a time when WoW will once again be a pleasure to play, when team work and synergy With Your Class, reward you with more then just emblems.

So many times the gear score debate rages on trade, and yet i say to you all, there is No measure of Skill in Woltk, Yes it is ALL about Numbers, and maybe it doesnt have to be this way.

[Thallidomaniac]

Bugger the CC - GIEF MOAR STORYLINEZ!!! I want more dungeons like BRD, etc - where you feel like your progressing epicly. I also cbfed wiping in a heroic heaps because some n00b rogue forgot to sap something or the pally didn't repent that mob that does the mass aoe. The good thing about heroics these days is that it removes the responsibility for the safety of the group from everyone and puts in the hands of the tank and/or the healer. This makes for a well defined group structure.

It also means I can actually carry newbs through instances who have no idea what they're doing cause they have no real responsibility. Introduce the need for cc again and no newb will ever last an entire dungeon run. The game has changed and casuals are here to stay. I for one, welcome our new casual insect overlords.

So you're saying that it would be someone's fault for a wipe that a CC got resisted back in BC days when the 1% miss chance on spells couldn't be overcome with hit rating?

[DR.Green]

ye i hope we need to CC more
it just adds something extra to a encounter

[Walkingsteak]

This would mean that you'd actually had to spend more then 15mins in an heroic and that you'd had to use that brain matter inside your head in order to get trough trash, which clearly goes agaisnt blizzard policy

That could easily be solved with less amount of trash, but the thrash remaining was harder too handle

[Gurkalicious]

This would mean that you'd actually had to spend more then 15mins in an heroic and that you'd had to use that brain matter inside your head in order to get trough trash, which clearly goes agaisnt blizzard policy

LOL

[papey]

voted no due to the fact that some classes have very limited - no CC and i dont think thats fair on them.

on the other hand they could make the bosses harder, maybe even have abilities that scale with the group (ie % health) that way they might not seem so trivial running them with higher ilvl

[evan_s]

voted no due to the fact that some classes have very limited - no CC and i dont think thats fair on them.

on the other hand they could make the bosses harder, maybe even have abilities that scale with the group (ie % health) that way they might not seem so trivial running them with higher ilvl

More classes have CC options available now than when BC was out and I think they can find a balance between wanting or needing all 3 dps to be able to cc and charging in just aeing everything to death. You could use unique mob mechanics to make CC desirable with out requiring them. For example take a twist on the old Core hound mechanic. Have 2 mobs in a group that will automatically res any mob in the pack when they die. Give the cast time a timer but uninterpretable and only castable right when the mob dies. With a CC class you CC one of the mobs and kill the other one. In this case you could even set it up so a well timed stun or silence would even be sufficient. Then either kill the one you CCed if you can't keep it CCed (shaman frog for example) or leave it CCed and kill all the other ones then it. If you have no CC at all then you to coordinate killing both of them at nearly the same time so they can't res each other. A single CC makes the fight simpler and easier but it is not impossible with no CC.

[Jackmoves]

I dont nessecarly think CC should have to do be done on every/most trash pulls, maybe a few pulls in a hoeric but no too often but I also think trash should get harder, you shouldnt be able to run through a heroic aoe spamming the trash down, you should need to put up a proper kill priority/mark mobs. I like how Pit of Saron trash works(the trash leading up to last boss).

[Drawme]

Was CC ever hard?

You just formed a group to make sure you had enough and they had to remember to cast it every so often. There's nothing hard about it.

Bringing it back won't make group content hard again - it might coincide with making group content hard again if they make other changes to make it challenging, but it won't be the solution that does it. It'll just mean you spend time setting up every pull again. Added tedium.

No thanks.

[Avalanch]

I voted yes.

Personally, I just felt bored facerolling through trash in raids and in dungeons. I wouldn't really care if they're in dungeons or not, but it might make raid trash a little more interesting...

Personally, every time we killed Kologarn I died a little inside knowing all of the trash that would come.