1. #1
    Deleted

    Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Hello there, my question is if this trinket - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50353
    would be good for Demo, ive heard that this trinket is quite nice for affli and destro
    but how about Demo? currently i got shit trinkets and would like to replace the - http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50259

    with something better, spyglass and other good trinkets never wanna drop but as my guild will be going plaugeworks tonight im curious to know if this would be a good replacement.


  2. #2

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Yes, its best in slot for demo, and pretty much all other casters for that matter. Spyglass is also the other best in slot for demo.

  3. #3
    Deleted

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fry-Lock
    Yes, its best in slot for demo, and pretty much all other casters for that matter. Spyglass is also the other best in slot for demo.
    thank you, i havent been demo since i lvld realy. was a demo/destro build long ago
    so i dont realy know that much about the gear, checked maxdps.com but they
    havent got Demo as a DPS build so cant check the gear :S

  4. #4

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    With haste and a spellpower proc as equipped abilities this will be a must have for all 3 warlock specs. This is the only trinket I would take above my Mauradin's spyglass

  5. #5

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Yes yes, a thousand times yes. Pretty much every caster that values haste wants this. Hell at least one healer in my guild wants it just for the haste on it.

    What I wonder is if its cooldown is shared with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50360
    "Care about 'er? I love her! I'd kill everyone in the world and myself if she wanted it!"

  6. #6

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    It's much more questionable than people here are implying. Yes, it is best in slot for personal DPS, but as Demo you have other concerns. If you are in 25s and you are the only Demo Lock, or the rDPS Demo Lock then Dislodged is actually inferior to Muradin's Spyglass. They provide near identical SP, but Muradin's gives you that as a static value instead of spikes. It depends on your roll quite a bit. Illustration of the Dragon Soul is better in some situations, Muradin's is always better, Eye of the Broodmother is worse on average, etc. You can claim Dislodged as BiS only because you have two trinket slots.

  7. #7
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    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    It's much more questionable than people here are implying. Yes, it is best in slot for personal DPS, but as Demo you have other concerns. If you are in 25s and you are the only Demo Lock, or the rDPS Demo Lock then Dislodged is actually inferior to Muradin's Spyglass. They provide near identical SP, but Muradin's gives you that as a static value instead of spikes. It depends on your roll quite a bit. Illustration of the Dragon Soul is better in some situations, Muradin's is always better, Eye of the Broodmother is worse on average, etc. You can claim Dislodged as BiS only because you have two trinket slots.
    This was what I was thinking off.
    Vol'jin fanboy

  8. #8

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Quote Originally Posted by Negridoom
    Yes yes, a thousand times yes. Pretty much every caster that values haste wants this. Hell at least one healer in my guild wants it just for the haste on it.

    What I wonder is if its cooldown is shared with http://www.wowhead.com/?item=50360
    They do not share a cooldown, I have both buffs up frequently. DFO has a much higher uptime though, because of the much shorter ICD.

  9. #9

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    To clarify: Phylactery is a 90 second internal cooldown, double that of DFO.

    That said, it also has a higher proc chance and its up-time and overall benefit is much easier to model. The real issue is what it procs off and the gaps between procs. DP is at its best benefit from consistent SP because you can not time things around procs that increase DP as easily. For instance an Arcane Mage with DFO can switch rotations whenever a proc occurs and get extra benefits during the proc, but the benefit they would get from doing that with only 10% of the proc being added to their spellpower is much more limited.

  10. #10

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    It's much more questionable than people here are implying. Yes, it is best in slot for personal DPS, but as Demo you have other concerns. If you are in 25s and you are the only Demo Lock, or the rDPS Demo Lock then Dislodged is actually inferior to Muradin's Spyglass. They provide near identical SP, but Muradin's gives you that as a static value instead of spikes. It depends on your roll quite a bit. Illustration of the Dragon Soul is better in some situations, Muradin's is always better, Eye of the Broodmother is worse on average, etc. You can claim Dislodged as BiS only because you have two trinket slots.
    Actually, it's best in slot for both personal DPS and raid dps. If you are gearing for personal DPS demo, DFO and phylactery are the bis trinkets. If you are gearing for raid dps demo, DFO and spyglass are best in slot.

    Unless of course, the BiS list on EJ is wrong.

  11. #11

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Reread what you quoted.

    It's 'BiS' for rDPS because you have two trinket slots and you can't use the 251 and 264 Spyglass at the same time. It's the 'best second trinket' essentially. This is due to the proc based nature as well as the way it stacks resulting in its effect on DP and the difficulty in modeling the two together as it creates very erratic DP values. It's held up mostly by pDPS, which is part of rDPS and since the gap between something like IDS is so far away for pDPS the gap in worth of DP become less important.

    Because DP always over-writes itself on proc regardless of the associated power of the buff the returns from DFO's proc are almost always less than expected. You can partially model this with the Felguard's crit rate and swing time + cleave time, but it's very odd behavior. You'll always skip parts of the scaling of the buff. Best case scenario is your Felguard crits right at 18 seconds, then again right before 20 seconds, then doesn't crit at all for exactly 10 seconds. Very, very unlikely, but a huge buff if it happens. The problem is you're just as likely to not have it crit until 4-5 seconds into the buff, then again at 14-15, then again right as the buff wears off. So you never get the huge SP spike for DP and you're constantly at a DP value beneath your current SP value. The main question that's been raised is if the more static SP gain off the 258 Reign combined with the proc could outshine DFO for rDPS. The proc is superior to the static haste gain and the static SP is likely higher than the average SP gain on DP from DFO. The problem... again, it's intensely hard to model the value of DFO with DP.

  12. #12

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    Quote Originally Posted by harky
    It's 'BiS' for rDPS because you have two trinket slots and you can't use the 251 and 264 Spyglass at the same time. It's the 'best second trinket' essentially.

    The rest of this post has nothing to do with what I'm talking about.
    I know exactly what I quoted. I quoted your entire post, but was referring the last sentence, which should have been fairly obvious.

    Is there really any reason to be that technical? Obviously one is going to be better then the other as blizz rarely puts out two trinkets that are equal. Myself, and almost every other wow player minus a few math nuts, don't actually take the time to calculate what is BiS. We are happy to let those few math nuts, do the math, and follow their suggestions. Is it technically wrong to call DFO BiS, well I guess so. Does it matter? Not really, because it was suggested that both DFO and spyglass were both BiS for rDPS demo. Excuse me, I mean second best in slot and best in slot.

  13. #13

    Re: Dislodged Foreign Object for Demo?

    I consider it important to understand that the Spyglass is superior to the DFO. If you have a problem with that, well... that's weird.

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