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  1. #1

    Ele would like some lock loving please!

    hellooo wonderful warlocks!

    I guess all in all im asking;
    at what specific base spell power does demo > ToW? (be nice to know how its worked out if anyone can be bothered to explain)
    what is the dps lose for the individual lock from destro/afflic?

    i've had a look at demo raiding guide suggesting that at 25m toc gear a demo could bring 400spell power to the raid.??
    with 10% coming from demonic pact...10% of 2962 (our best locks spell power) i guess the extra SP comes from spellstones and lock armor?

    please help lovely lovely locks
    I am not a Zombie!!! I'm a very Ankh'd off Shaman!

  2. #2

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    oops obviously the loss of dps will vary significantly so maybe if u could just put ur own i can guage it!

    (personally as ele if u wonder i would gain at least 1k dps from the swap from ToW to Fire Elemental totem, searing being around 600 but then add in rest of raids increase )
    I am not a Zombie!!! I'm a very Ankh'd off Shaman!

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Ashrana's Avatar
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    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Not sure if I understand your question correctly but Demonic pact beats the shaman totem at around 3k sp. If your warlock has 2962 sp I assume that is without fel armor and demo spec, with that he will probably be around 3.4/3.5k sp.
    Forget everything you know about everything.

  4. #4

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    so that would mean a raid buff of about 350spell power roughly for our raid? (not including trinket procs)

    why i didnt ask my warlocks i don't know perhaps something to do with the fact they'd answer like a builder giving a quote! but thanks!
    I am not a Zombie!!! I'm a very Ankh'd off Shaman!

  5. #5

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    I have around 4k spellpower fully buffed in a raid, including flasks.

    The DPS loss is nearly nothing, I might be able to do ~500-1k more dps as affliction, but its no biggie.

  6. #6
    Pandaren Monk Tearor's Avatar
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    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    If your best lock has 2962 SP, that is either in another Spec (affliction?) or without one or more of the substantial demo buffs (no armor, no pet out). If 2962 SP is fully selfbuffed as demo with pet, let him respec.
    Also just to mention, Spellstones don't add SP.

    Your question was "when does demonic Pact become better than ToW", right?
    I assume you mean just SP-wise. The 3%crit and the benefit you personally get from ToW are hard to calculate.

    Well, the DPS loss for me (245-251 gear) from speccing affl-->demo for the buff is definitely noticeable, also because I am not as well trained in demo as I am in affliction, but never to the point that I (or s/o else :P)was disappointed with my dmg.
    If you have a caster-heavy setup, especially in 25, you want a demo lock. Also, some fights are actually excellent for demo because of decimate on adds (e.g. Saurfang, Deathwhisper) (in short, you get a nice buff if you dmg an add thats <35%, so you can throw Soul Fires in the boss' face) so the personal dps loss is marginal to nonexistent and you still buff your raid.
    No point mentioning these bats, I thought. The poor bastard will see them soon enough.

  7. #7

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    that was unbuffed as affliction yep.
    thanks for the response, see many places where people say 'oh go demo if ur well geared', and that tends to be end of convo. so the extra info is nice to have.
    3% is a shame to lose but going on the spell power/dps gain that is likely seems worthwhile for myself as for the rest of raid/guild would have to check what 3% crit across the raid actually works out at in terms of raid wise dps and also healing now with a fight like dreamwalker
    I am not a Zombie!!! I'm a very Ankh'd off Shaman!

  8. #8
    Pandaren Monk Tearor's Avatar
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    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    actually, what is the alternative totem you could use instead of ToW anyway?
    No point mentioning these bats, I thought. The poor bastard will see them soon enough.

  9. #9

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Searing / Magma / Fire Elemental.

  10. #10

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    probably would only use searing/fire ele myself.

    testing on dummies only/past recolections of their dps
    Searing = ~650dps for me atm (would hopefully be higher on boss fights)
    Fire ele = pushing 1k, it lasts 2mins and has a 10m CD

    I am not a Zombie!!! I'm a very Ankh'd off Shaman!

  11. #11

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Magma is actually more single target DPS then searing. I know, it's silly. And it won't hold up on movement fights, but yeah. I do suggest using it where suitable.

  12. #12
    Dreadlord hellar's Avatar
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    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    i got to 4000 SP in my heroic daily today w/ just fel armor kings and MotW. therefor i bring 400 SP to the raid. if i am raid buffed it can be a lot high about 4300 ish so 430 SP is a lot better then ToW

    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...alor&cn=Hellar

    self buffed i am at 3500 SP

    I dont notice to much loss in dps.

    http://s773.photobucket.com/albums/y...3.jpg&newest=1

    http://s773.photobucket.com/albums/y...3.jpg&newest=1

    I got affic for 10 mans mostly. if i were demo i would think i would be round 7k dps for festergut. its very little trade off for helping the raid dps a lot

  13. #13

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    remimber assa rogues and ret paladins bring the 3% crit aswell

    thou thay might not be as good at keeping the debuff up on add fights

  14. #14

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Quote Originally Posted by pieki
    remimber assa rogues and ret paladins bring the 3% crit aswell

    thou thay might not be as good at keeping the debuff up on add fights
    With ret having Judgement as one of their top priority spells due to the dmge, seal effect and replenishment it should be up on the boss constantly, however as you say throw some adds into the fight and the adds themselves won't have the 3% crit buff that is instantly added by them being in range (quite close range tbh) of ToW let alone it staying up on the boss.

    Crit is generally too hard to calculate with certain classes gaining various effects from crits of certain spells/abilities, my advice would be to ask the lock to try demo, overall the SP increase from DP vs ToW should account (and more) for his slight lack of deeps, this does require him to be a team player

  15. #15

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Demo can be a wreaking ball if he does everything right like get close when Meta is up for Immo Aura, Time Meta and CoD with all possible CD's every 2 min to get the most out of it, Use a CoD right after the first ends so you can use another with Meta. Make sure Corruption and Immolate are always on the main target (Don't clip so refresh them just as they fall off). Use MC procs on Incinerates and spam Sbolt between and then spam Soul Fire when 35% is hit while keeping DoTs on the target as well. O ya, alsways pop Demonic Empowerment when its off CD. It is a good chunck of DPS from your pet.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...a24,Qpbe,11403
    This ^ is a better spec then ↓ because it lets your Felguard keep doing Cleaves which is a large amount of DPS
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...SR4,Qpbe,11403

    You will see a lot of Demo locks have that second spec for some reason. The Mana Feed is a really large boost to your overall DPS because the pet can keep cleaves going which are still stronger then normal white attacks on single target.

  16. #16

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Quote Originally Posted by Warlocomotif
    Magma is actually more single target DPS then searing. I know, it's silly. And it won't hold up on movement fights, but yeah. I do suggest using it where suitable.
    Only up to ~4k SP. Searing scales better with SP.

    If a Lock can hit 2800 SP and there is another 3% crit debuff available then it's worth it. If an alternative isn't available it becomes a lot more complicated.

  17. #17

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Tallan...do you not have replenishment in your raid? My felguard never goes oom in a raid situation which is why I run the second spec...

  18. #18

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    I do but the Replenimsnt rate is to low for cleave. My pet has under 10K mana (10man raiding). Either way the second spec doesn't seem to get any other bonus other then faster cast for your pet and if your pet is being killed there is something wrong right there. I would rather not chance my pet running out of mana to do cleaves.

  19. #19

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    Quote Originally Posted by TallanX
    Demo can be a wreaking ball if he does everything right like get close when Meta is up for Immo Aura, Time Meta and CoD with all possible CD's every 2 min to get the most out of it, Use a CoD right after the first ends so you can use another with Meta. Make sure Corruption and Immolate are always on the main target (Don't clip so refresh them just as they fall off). Use MC procs on Incinerates and spam Sbolt between and then spam Soul Fire when 35% is hit while keeping DoTs on the target as well. O ya, alsways pop Demonic Empowerment when its off CD. It is a good chunck of DPS from your pet.

    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...a24,Qpbe,11403
    This ^ is a better spec then ↓ because it lets your Felguard keep doing Cleaves which is a large amount of DPS
    http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?warl...SR4,Qpbe,11403

    You will see a lot of Demo locks have that second spec for some reason. The Mana Feed is a really large boost to your overall DPS because the pet can keep cleaves going which are still stronger then normal white attacks on single target.
    Well, have you even tried to remove the point from mana feed before stating that the first spec is the best?
    It depends on your gear and raid setup obviously, but since I took the point off mana feed I may have seen my felguard go oom twice... And even then, the point is better spent in Master Summoner for an insta summon (which grants your felguard his whole mana bar btw) than in mana feed imho.
    Demo loses so much dps when the felguard is dead that you want it back as soon as possible. And a 0.5 sec summon is definitely different from a 2.5 sec summon in any competitive raiding situation.

  20. #20

    Re: Ele would like some lock loving please!

    I can't remember the last time my pet died during a boss fight :-(


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