Destro buff?

[kai zayin]

I've been thinking about this for a while and perhaps it's because I'm not in the most amazing guild, but I personally don't see and particular reason to buff destro dps. That aside, and forgive me if I've missed a post, why does Pyroclasm not proc off our Conflag dot crits? Were the buff to proc off not only the initial hit, but also the dot the uptime on Pyroclasm would jump (to nearly 100% I believe). I don't really PvP very much, so don't know if there would be negative repercussions in that area, but what does everyone think of the fact that Pyroclasm doesn't proc off of our Conflag dot despite the wording on the actual talent, and the fact that the dot is also called Conflagrate?

-Kaizayin

[harky]

People are crying for a buff to Destro for a very specific reason: Demonology is currently doing better personal DPS than Destro. The gap isn't very large on fights with no adds, but because Destro has always had crappy AOE and a lot of pitfalls with target switches, it's a larger gap in practice than on paper. Afflic is and should be above Destro and Demo due to lower survivability, ramp up times, etc. The issue is that both of the more 'utility' type specs should be even and they aren't.

And no, Pyroclasm proccing off Conflag DoTs wouldn't impact PVP and would be a nice DPS buff. That's actually a nice approach to the problem.

[kai zayin]

First time I've heard from another lock on the Pyroclasm change, but I kinda disagree with the idea that affliction "should" do more dps than destro. I had no idea that Demo was doing better dps than destro though.

[gherkin]

It does have a pvp impact - Pyroclasm is currently never up for a conflag, so having the dot proc it means that Conflag can hit 6% harder in PVP, increasing burst. 6% isn't a lot, but it's something and that something needs to be considered.

[harky]

First time I've heard from another lock on the Pyroclasm change, but I kinda disagree with the idea that affliction "should" do more dps than destro. I had no idea that Demo was doing better dps than destro though.

Demo and Destro both have access to Soul Link and other utility that gives them an edge to be taken despite having lower DPS. Affliction just has 5% crit, but because a Demo Lock is basically required right now for DP you can't claim that as part of what Afflic is bringing. It's the lowest survivability spec and it also has the most complex DPS cycles when it comes to real encounters. Afflic definitely has grounds for being the highest DPS. And yes, in personal-DPS gear Demo is ahead of Destro on tank-n-spank fights and is even higher on fights with adds (sometimes passing Afflic, but not usually).

The impact from Pyroclasm wouldn't be noticeable though. It might lead to 17/54 becoming standard, but even that's a little unlikely. With all the recent changes (see: damage nerfs in PVP) there wouldn't be a problem.

[kai zayin]

I hadn't thought of the fact that allowing Pyroclasm to proc off the DoT would allow it to buff Conflag, a previously unencountered sequence of events. Hmm, I see how that could affect PvP more than I had supposed, but still don't really see any huge difference.

@ Harky, what do you mean by other utility? As far as I know other than Soul Link (which I don't believe many destro locks decide to pick up as far as PvE is concerned at least) there aren't any other forms of utility open to destro which are unavailable to affliction. I suppose if you consider pet survivability utility Fel Synergy could count as well.

That aside would Blizzard actually consider making this change?

[harky]

@ Harky, what do you mean by other utility? As far as I know other than Soul Link (which I don't believe many destro locks decide to pick up as far as PvE is concerned at least) there aren't any other forms of utility open to destro which are unavailable to affliction. I suppose if you consider pet survivability utility Fel Synergy could count as well.

Utility talents Destro can take: Fel Synergy, Demonic Embrace, Improved Healthstone, Soul Link, Fel Domination, Aftermath, Improved Soul Leech, Shadow Fury.

There are builds, particularly 3/13/54+1 builds that neglect the fact that Destro can bring utility within the build, but those are pretty much out of style in T10. You'll always have more health, or stronger healthstones, you'll always have a slow, etc. One of the big selling points of 18/53 is that it keeps up on DPS and brings Soul Link.

Here's an example: www.wowhead.com/?talent#IZfR0hoIZVbGVdcuVoAcct
4% more stamina, 20% less damage taken, self-heals pet, improved healthstones and a slow.

Bonus? Also the top DPS spec as Destro. Compare to the utility of Afflic, which in a 25 man that's properly organized consists of... Siphon Life. The difference in survivability and other options might not have 'clicked' yet, but it certainly has for high end guilds and that's why most of their locks have some variant of 18/53, or 13/58. When the gap between pDPS Demo and Destro becomes clearer we may start to see them move towards Demo; I know our Destro Locks have already moved to Demo for this reason and saw DPS gains. They keep an Afflic spec for fights where all that matters is DPS, then switch to Demo otherwise.

[Clarkis2001]

This would have negligible effects on PvP. If you managed to keep Immolate on a target and were not under some sort of CC after 10sec then you would do 6% more dmg on your next Conflagrate... no big deal.