Demo Lock not being utilized for raids (25)

[evoco]

I was wondering what you guys ALWAYS bring to raids (caster dps boosts), ie boomkin, spriest, unholy dk, demo lock, elem sham.

I ask because our guild recently acquired a demo lock and half the time he's being sat on the sidelines. Yes his dps is lower than the majority of other casters (he's also catching up on some gear), but the buff the other 17 of us or so gain from him outweighs his personal shortcomings.

We normally have at least 1 spriest with us, an unholy dk, and 75% of the time a boomkin. We have no elem shams in guild, and now we have access to the demo lock. I guess I'm just wondering if other guilds always include those that buff casters or if you also put these guys on the wait-list/sub-list, and if so for what reasons? I really want to find a way to convince our raid lead that its quite beneficial to use the lock, but so far I don't think they're fully on board.

[Shæa]

If your guild leader needs to be convinced that a Demo Lock is something that should be brought to raids, you might as well /gquit and just save yourself some trouble down the road.

Especially if you don't have an Elemental Shaman. Seriously?

[Beachchairs]

If your guild leader needs to be convinced that a Demo Lock is something that should be brought to raids, you might as well /gquit and just save yourself some trouble down the road.

Especially if you don't have an Elemental Shaman. Seriously?

This.

People love demo locks. Particularly healers.

[evoco]

Especially if you don't have an Elemental Shaman. Seriously?

That is why I'm so confused about what they're doing. We used to have an elem sham, before he realized he had no life and stopped raiding lol. He was brought to every raid that he was online for for buffs, and he was always last on dps...so I just don't understand why not the lock. It's not like they don't know what the buff does, its more like they don't care....Are there other raid leads like this (guild raid leads, not tarded trade chat gs pugs - not to say all pug rl's are tards, just well its trade chat we know what happens there)?.

[Jenerena]

Why are there so many clueless raider leaders out there?

By not bothering to recruit an elemental shaman AND refusing to take a demo lock because of lack of dps, it is clear he/she is clueless. I play demo for our strict 10man raids. That is 3 casters and 3 healers I am talking about, and it still pays off. In a 25man raid, that is perhaps 7-8 casters approximately? And 6 healers? Any ICC geared warlock has at least 4k spell power raid buffed nowadays, that is 400+ spell power to each and every raid member. In my guild, my DP alone gives our moonkin druid around 800 dps increase, about 5-600 for our mage. I lose maybe 200 dps. That is still 1k extra raid dps.

Your guild is losing out on a huge resource that are being offered there on a plate. It's about time people started thinking about raid DPS and not just personal DPS. You raid as a team, who honestly cares who is doing what as long as that raid dps is enough to get a boss down. Demo locks are at the top of the meter in terms of raid dps.

[Asjes]

Why are there so many clueless raider leaders out there?

By not bothering to recruit an elemental shaman AND refusing to take a demo lock because of lack of dps, it is clear he/she is clueless. I play demo for our strict 10man raids. That is 3 casters and 3 healers I am talking about, and it still pays off. In a 25man raid, that is perhaps 7-8 casters approximately? And 6 healers? Any ICC geared warlock has at least 4k spell power raid buffed nowadays, that is 400+ spell power to each and every raid member. In my guild, my DP alone gives our moonkin druid around 800 dps increase, about 5-600 for our mage. I lose maybe 200 dps. That is still 1k extra raid dps.

Your guild is losing out on a huge resource that are being offered there on a plate. It's about time people started thinking about raid DPS and not just personal DPS. You raid as a team, who honestly cares who is doing what as long as that raid dps is enough to get a boss down. Demo locks are at the top of the meter in terms of raid dps.

I totally disagree, I just managed with 5.2k GS to deal 7.4k DPS in VOA w/o even using a flask. You can't say that such amounts of DPS can be called lacking. Once the boss goes on lower % and you morph and spam Soulfires with the proccyou're just gonna TOP the meters. I beated 5.7k GS hunters and rogues, so I really think there is absolutely NO reason to not take a Demon along.

[smashzu]

Just because you can make a raid of all druids doesn't mean you should. Raid comp goes a long way in high end raiding.

[Jenerena]

I totally disagree, I just managed with 5.2k GS to deal 7.4k DPS in VOA w/o even using a flask. You can't say that such amounts of DPS can be called lacking. Once the boss goes on lower % and you morph and spam Soulfires with the proccyou're just gonna TOP the meters. I beated 5.7k GS hunters and rogues, so I really think there is absolutely NO reason to not take a Demon along.

Yea, and I did 9.2k with 5.4k GS in VoA as demo. But that's not the point. 'lack of dps' was what the OP said. I don't lack dps in my own raids, or anywhere else. But it is clear the RL of the OPs guild thinks his dps is too low because he is probably comparing his dps to the rogues at the top.

And I agree with your last point...that is what I was saying in my post. Of course if the OPs dps is actually too low then that is a different issue, but to be honest the amount of raid dps added will still probably outweigh the lack of dps.

[Asjes]

Yea, and I did 9.2k with 5.4k GS in VoA as demo. But that's not the point. 'lack of dps' was what the OP said. I don't lack dps in my own raids, or anywhere else. But it is clear the RL of the OPs guild thinks his dps is too low because he is probably comparing his dps to the rogues at the top.

And I agree with your last point...that is what I was saying in my post. Of course if the OPs dps is actually too low then that is a different issue, but to be honest the amount of raid dps added will still probably outweigh the lack of dps.

I was just trying to state that the argument of demo DPS lacks more then the other speccs is way overdone.

[GT4]

Every time you have at least one lock in the raid, at least one lock should be demonology.
They bring the only raid buff that directly scales with gear and it's the only one vastly superior to its alternatives.
And just by the way, demonology locks are among the top DPS in the lich king encounter and not far behind affliction in other encounters (while being stronger than destruction).

[Edulah]

Demo locks are so awesome anyway, I did heroic CoS with one from Korgath, he did 10k dps on malganis, 10k!! I had to have a cigarette it was so good XD. I agree though demo locks are underplayed and underrated just because they don't do well pvp or people just like to go destro and be like a mage =P. I'm currently raising my own Demo Lock for future raid purpose, 10 levels to go!!

[Jenerena]

I was just trying to state that the argument of demo DPS lacks more then the other speccs is way overdone.

Yea, if played properly demo locks can do respectable dps. The difference between affliction and demo for my gear level is tiny. Plus I find demo alot more forgiving. With affliction you do have to deal with rolling things on corruption which is easy to mess up, or was in my case anyway.

[Jenerena]

Demo locks are so awesome anyway, I did heroic CoS with one from Korgath, he did 10k dps on malganis, 10k!! I had to have a cigarette it was so good XD. I agree though demo locks are underplayed and underrated just because they don't do well pvp or people just like to go destro and be like a mage =P. I'm currently raising my own Demo Lock for future raid purpose, 10 levels to go!!

The average reaction time of a WoW player is about 3 months. So in 3 months time I am sure every WoW player will have realised demo locks aren't actually as bad as they were.

[evoco]

Yea, and I did 9.2k with 5.4k GS in VoA as demo. But that's not the point. 'lack of dps' was what the OP said. I don't lack dps in my own raids, or anywhere else. But it is clear the RL of the OPs guild thinks his dps is too low because he is probably comparing his dps to the rogues at the top.

And I agree with your last point...that is what I was saying in my post. Of course if the OPs dps is actually too low then that is a different issue, but to be honest the amount of raid dps added will still probably outweigh the lack of dps.

I didn't mean to blanket 'demo dps is lol dps' it's his personal dps, just so happens he's demo. like i said he's a little behind on the gear, but once he catches up he'll be more than fine. As for my dps i'm fine as long as i don't get distracted by something shiny along the way :P

I've never played demo, I'm one of those stubborn 'I don't care what they do to us AFFLIC 4 LIFE!!' locks, well except the end of BC shadow spam, anyway....He's normally sitting between 13th and 16th, out of 16/17 dps, so he's not always the lowest. I mean we have an spriest that has the gear that ends up in the same place....I don't know anymore, I think I'll just stick with my lifes mantra of "Ppl are stupid, I hate them all."

Well thank you all for not making me feel like I'm losing my mind. I couldn't figure out if I was overlooking something, but after reading the replies I'm not.

[evan_s]

I don't see any reason why you wouldn't bring him if your are progression oriented. A demo lock is going to be a lot better for rDPS than an enhancement shaman or resto shaman providing the spell power buff. An enhancement shaman looses a fair bit of personal dps due to not being able to use magma totem and possible fire nova. A resto shaman's buff is the weakest possible version. If the main reason his dps is low is because of his gear that is a good thing since it will resolve itself as he gets gear from raids.

[krasgoth]

Find a parse of his dps on a fight, and i'll tell him what he's doing wrong.

$5 it's not gear.

[wiggletard]

If your guild leader needs to be convinced that a Demo Lock is something that should be brought to raids, you might as well /gquit and just save yourself some trouble down the road.

Especially if you don't have an Elemental Shaman. Seriously?

and even with an ele: 450+ sp(demo) > 280 baseline sp(ele)


and boomkin give the same ele oath buff with their aura, plus more(imo) utility to raid

[Rockmonster]

If your guild leader needs to be convinced that a Demo Lock is something that should be brought to raids, you might as well /gquit and just save yourself some trouble down the road.

Especially if you don't have an Elemental Shaman. Seriously?

this 100%

[ComputerNerd]

A demo lock is the best persistent bonus to caster dps once they have sufficient spell power to outperform the totem of wrath.
Unfortunatly if it came down to a choice of only a single one, then it is likely to be a shaman picked because people see heroism/bloodlust as the must have buff, even in content where it most certainly is not a requirement such as heroics or 10-man normal/lower tiers.
Demo locks tended until recent buffs to have a personal dps drop compared to the other specs, so even when they were providing a greater buff to the raid, they were not popular enough for that reason.
People need to stop looking at heroism and consider others.