Unholy tank ?'s

[KidGosu]

Right now im tanking as unholy ... here is my armory
http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...rius&cn=Phaile
(sorry i logged out in my dps gear, look at wow heroes for my gear)

While tanking fester last night... it was suggested that i use death strike... instead of SS.... because of the life return... and it was actually kind of nice.

Right now i have a...16/5/50 build.... Could i do a 23/5/43 build and use Death Strike instead of Scourge Strike and be better off?

As it is right now.... i have crappy threat using ss.... would it be worse using a different build and death strike? Id also be getting the 6% strenght/ 3% stam... and 5% crit but losing the 10% dmg from the unholy tree.. is it worth it? Any tips would be nice...

[Zerioc]

Afaik Unholy is the worst of the 3 tanking trees. Best bet is probably just go Blood.


I'm sure someone who actually knows more about tanking will point you in the right direction though.

[rollie9]

I have a pretty nicely geared DK tank, and what I reccommend is to just respec to blood. Sure, SS sometimes has some flashy numbers, but so does DS(especially if its glyphed - 7k crits ftw) and it gives you tons of health. It gives you ever MORE if you are blood and talented it. Unholy is just bad for threat and has terrible cooldowns.

[mhp]

Go blood. Or frost. Both will do better threat than unholy, and both will have better survival. If you were asked to use Death Strike, and you're okay with a blood spec, go blood.

Don't try to go down both trees, though, that will end up with both parts being gimped.

[Zao]

Just read the sticky above. I've listed the Strengths/Weaknesses of each tree.

[Antardragon]

If you specifically want an Unholy/Blood tank, then there's a few talents you need to change.

As a tank, you don't really need damage increasing talents (of course it helps to keep threat, but it's not vital). This is my tanking build: http://eu.wowarmory.com/talent-calc....33101203133100 I'm sure you can change a few talents here and there, but you should be able to see the main idea of the build - better diseases, AoE, and anti-magic abilities.

Looking at your build, I would say get rid of Dirge as generating runic power isn't a priority. It's not hard to generate enough runic power in combat anyway. Having a pet ghoul alongside you useful. You may not need the dps, but Death Pact (sacrifice your ghoul for health) can save your life a great many times. The same goes for Rune Tap in Blood - a very useful tanking talent that will give you a quick health boost when you really need it. I also recommend Virulence to help you spread your diseases around. Your diseases used alongside Pestilence helps you generate AoE threat.

Yes, it's a good idea to use Deathstrike every now and then in your rotation. It'll help keep your health topped up, but you should be using Scourge Strike and Runic Strike to keep up threat.

A typical pull rotation will look like this:

Death and Decay -> Icy Touch -> Plague Strike -> Pestilence -> Blood Boil

After the initial pull, alternate between Runic Strike, Blood Strike, Scourge Strike and Death Strike, depending if you want to help out with health or generating threat. Always remember to tab between mobs and give each a Runic Strike or Scourge Strike to keep the threat up, and hit Pestilence to refresh diseases and Blood Boil to keep up AoE threat.

For a more detailed explanation on the build and abilities, have a look at: http://hus.guildlaunch.com/forums/vi...703&gid=130661

[KidGosu]

I know blood is better for threat, and i know frost is also.... Dont point me in a direction ive already been in. Worst Cd? Bone shield is amazing for 1st, 2nd, 4th, bosses in ICC, along with rotface... its up for long periods of time.

I wouldnt use that build, because i dont have trouble with aoe threat at all.... i dont have trouble staying alive.... and it has no toughness.


Guess i have to test it...

[Antardragon]

I wouldnt use that build, because i dont have trouble with aoe threat at all.... i dont have trouble staying alive.... and it has no toughness.

The logic I've followed with the build is that Toughness is not vital for DK tanks. I can endure the lack of reduction on movement slowing effects, and increased armour only works on melee mobs. Magic ignores armour, so instead of increased armour, I have chosen Spell Deflection and put the last two points into Veteran of the Third War for increased strength, stamina and expertise.

[Nangz]

The logic I've followed with the build is that Toughness is not vital for DK tanks. I can endure the lack of reduction on movement slowing effects, and increased armour only works on melee mobs. Magic ignores armour, so instead of increased armour, I have chosen Spell Deflection and put the last two points into Veteran of the Third War for increased strength, stamina and expertise.

Yea good idea except there is no boss in icc that only deals magic damage.

If you try that on festergut you WILL die.

[Deleted]

The logic I've followed with the build is that Toughness is not vital for DK tanks. I can endure the lack of reduction on movement slowing effects, and increased armour only works on melee mobs. Magic ignores armour, so instead of increased armour, I have chosen Spell Deflection and put the last two points into Veteran of the Third War for increased strength, stamina and expertise.

omg mate... that's the worst advise i've ever seen....

Don't EVER skip Toughness... EVER!

what are you tanking btw?... it seems you never got a foot on any raid. I don't wish to be rude or anything... but read the sticky threat.. you might learn something from it.

[mhp]

The logic I've followed with the build is that Toughness is not vital for DK tanks. I can endure the lack of reduction on movement slowing effects, and increased armour only works on melee mobs. Magic ignores armour, so instead of increased armour, I have chosen Spell Deflection and put the last two points into Veteran of the Third War for increased strength, stamina and expertise.

Wait, what? You replaced Toughness, a strong tanking talent, with Spell Deflection, which is total crap?

Good job. You win the Fail of the Day award.

[praanz]

Tanking build without Toughness.... that sure was funny.

No but, seriously. Tank as Blood. There's really no other option to survive vs them hard hitting bosses. Any tanking build without Will of the Necropolis is bound to fail. Threatwise it's good on single target but lacks abit on aoe-threat, but you can really make up that with some skillfull targetswitching and other tricks.

[mhp]

Tanking build without Toughness.... that sure was funny.

No but, seriously. Tank as Blood. There's really no other option to survive vs them hard hitting bosses. Any tanking build without Will of the Necropolis is bound to fail.

I disagree. I'm doing quite fine as DW frost, thankyouverymuch.

[praanz]

I disagree. I'm doing quite fine as DW frost, thankyouverymuch.

Not saying it's impossible, but if you're looking at the majority of DK tanks in top-end raiding guilds you'll see that the majority tanks as Blood.

Why?

Not because DW Frost or any other tanking build is impossible to use, it's just not the best one. You can keep answering stubborn about it, but in the end Blood really comes out on top of things. When I say "fail" I really mean you will make it easier for your guild and raid by choosing the better build.

[Antardragon]

I've been tanking ICC with my guild for the last few weeks. Last week we got past the Gunship battle (got the weekly frost giant down before that). We're still working on our "elite" team - my DK isn't my main and I've only been on it due to a shortage of tanks.

I'm doing fine tanking without Toughness. You may point out a particular boss in ICC that would supposedly one shot me, but I yet to fight that boss so I'll see what happens. Hell, I might be able to do ICC on my main next week so I may not reach the boss with my tank.

[mhp]

Not saying it's impossible, but if you're looking at the majority of DK tanks in top-end raiding guilds you'll see that the majority tanks as Blood.

If you look at the majority of top-end raiding guilds, their main tanks are usually not DKs.

Why?

Habit: what worked once, will usually work still. Until blood works for them, they're never gonna experiment. Which is fine, but just because N guilds use a certain class+spec combo, doesn't mean everything else is vastly inferior.

If that were so, warriors would be the only tanks to this day.

Not because DW Frost or any other tanking build is impossible to use, it's just not the best one. You can keep answering stubborn about it, but in the end Blood really comes out on top of things. When I say "fail" I really mean you will make it easier for your guild and raid by choosing the better build.

The difference between frost and blood is two words: Vampiric Blood. That is the single thing that makes Blood better, nothing else. Apart from that, both specs are perfectly viable and the difference is marginal.

I don't really care what you think, my healers like me better as frost, as I take far less damage, which does matter in certain situations (eg, Anub25 HC add tanking is a spectacular example where less damage taken is king) and I'm not as much a mana sponge as blood is. I also like frost better. Win-win.

[kaelleria]

I know blood is better for threat, and i know frost is also.... Dont point me in a direction ive already been in. Worst Cd? Bone shield is amazing for 1st, 2nd, 4th, bosses in ICC, along with rotface... its up for long periods of time.

I wouldnt use that build, because i dont have trouble with aoe threat at all.... i dont have trouble staying alive.... and it has no toughness.


Guess i have to test it...

How do you figure Boneshield being up for long periods of time? Are you talking about the time you aren't tanking on Marrowgar, Deathwhisper, Saurfang, ect? You've got 3 hits unglyphed from a direct damage source. With chill of the throne, I very much doubt that your total avoidance is > 40%. When you are actively tanking a boss, you're going to get hit and it will eat the charges on your BS. You may have 3-8 seconds of that damage reduction, but in most cases, you're going to get hit and have maybe 2-5 seconds of the damage reduction.

While UBA isn't much better, a far smaller amount of actual damage reduced/hit, it still doesn't have the randomness of bone shield, making it a superior CD in my opinion.

[mhp]

While UBA isn't much better, a far smaller amount of actual damage reduced/hit, it still doesn't have the randomness of bone shield, making it a superior CD in my opinion.

UbA is much better, because it lasts the entire 20 seconds. It's still inferior to VB, but it's not as crap as people make it out to be :P

[praanz]

I've been tanking ICC with my guild for the last few weeks. Last week we got past the Gunship battle (got the weekly frost giant down before that). We're still working on our "elite" team - my DK isn't my main and I've only been on it due to a shortage of tanks.

I'm doing fine tanking without Toughness. You may point out a particular boss in ICC that would supposedly one shot me, but I yet to fight that boss so I'll see what happens. Hell, I might be able to do ICC on my main next week so I may not reach the boss with my tank.

Yeah but, this logic and arguments it's not about making a specific example.

F.ex, we've done Anub'Arak 25 with a maintank DK in tank gear, but in unholy DPS spec (he forgot to respec). So clearly alot of things aren't impossible in this game. But it all boils down to making it easier for the raid in total and not what works from one single players perspective.

In the scenario with Anub'Arak the healers had to really be on the ball and heal the fuck out of the DK tank to keep him alive, esp during Freezing Slashes. That extra time and focus it took would pretty safely mean a wipe when doing new content where players are A) Slightly undergeared and B) Not fully knowledged about the fight. It's called progressing and making it easy for the team to beat new bosses.

Now, imagine your removal of Toughness doesn't wipe the raid. But what if your healers at the same time have a slightly PvP oriented spec that doesn't really give that "oomph" to their heals and longetivity in mana at the same time as some of the DPS'es too chooses lesser DPS specs (frostmages, pvp-specs and what not) - what do you think the grand total of that would end up with? Yes... a wipe. Not because one person did wrong...but because the raid as a team failed to work in the best interest of everyone.

[Vodamn]

sigh.

There is NO reason to not take Toughness. That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Guess what 99.9% of the damage you take is? That's right, it's not magic.

Why do people make this game so hard?

Stop trying to be unique by doing dumb crap. That's like priests I have seen that want to DPS from the Holy tree, and want Blizzard to spend time turning it into a viable raiding spec by mindlessly spamming Smite. No.

You are not a special snowflake. Put your damn points into Toughness, there's zero reasoning not to, period. You're lucky if a raid is foolish enough to take you without points in that. Good luck on hard modes.