3.3 Destruction PvE Video Guide

[Optec]

Hi guys Optec here again. I got a lot of positive feedback from the Demo video so I decided to make videos for the other two specs. Here is my Destruction guide. It's a bit shorter than the demo one but I don't talk about add-ons in this one.

EDIT: Its been added to the compendium

Look in the Youtube movie information box for more info on the content of the video.
NOTE: This has been updated and includes comments from here and the official WoW forums. Please read this info as well watching the video.

Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMoYxz3avF0

[Freakster]

Well done ;D love it, just like I loved your demonology guide(inspired me to start using PowerAura).

[harky]

Far less useful than your Demo 'guide' and encourages a poor spec and glyph choices. ??? Also doesn't deal with the biggest issues with Destro and how to deal with CD conflicts. It should help novices who have no clue how to play, but it could potentially leave them with a poor understanding of the spec in the long run. It really needs to include when to use Corruption and why CoA should almost never be used as well as how to deal with times when Incinerate may hit after Immolate drops.

[Nangz]

Far less useful than your Demo 'guide' and encourages a poor spec and glyph choices. ??? Also doesn't deal with the biggest issues with Destro and how to deal with CD conflicts. It should help novices who have no clue how to play, but it could potentially leave them with a poor understanding of the spec in the long run. It really needs to include when to use Corruption and why CoA should almost never be used as well as how to deal with times when Incinerate may hit after Immolate drops.

Sorry but some of these I don't know.

What do you do when icinerate would hit after immolate drops?

And you SHOULD use CoA provided you are moving enough to lifetap within reason and you already put corruption up.

[harky]

What you do depends a lot on what's going on in the fight. It's not something with a single cut and dry answer. The most common one is that you should cast Incinerate anyway.

And no, CoA should almost never be cast and Corruption should never be put up unless a fight requires a lot of movement. The reason CoA shouldn't be used is that Incinerate has passed it on damage and since you should be using CoD you will not be able to CoA even when moving. The only time you'd use CoA is if a boss has 30-59 seconds to live and you have to move and CoD is not on the target. It's pretty rare for all three to line up in a fight.

Exactly the type of misinformation a video like this should clear up... but doesn't.

[Nangz]

What you do depends a lot on what's going on in the fight. It's not something with a single cut and dry answer. The most common one is that you should cast Incinerate anyway.

And no, CoA should almost never be cast and Corruption should never be put up unless a fight requires a lot of movement. The reason CoA shouldn't be used is that Incinerate has passed it on damage and since you should be using CoD you will not be able to CoA even when moving. The only time you'd use CoA is if a boss has 30-59 seconds to live and you have to move and CoD is not on the target. It's pretty rare for all three to line up in a fight.

Exactly the type of misinformation a video like this should clear up... but doesn't.

Sorry but i feel inclined.

rotface near the end if ya get infection
Putricide phase 3
sindragosa? (maybe near the end)
deathwhisper while kiting a ghost
marrogar if he is gonna die during a bone storm

[harky]

Rotface you'd never use it. No movement after 3 minutes into the fight. Putricide you'll never use it, P3 lasts >60 but <90 seconds. Sindragosa if you have poor Portal placement may be used, otherwise it won't. Deathwhisper it would only come up if there are 2 ghosts nearby, otherwise there's no reason to move if you're spread properly. Marrowgar you should position in the middle so you can nuke constantly, if you have to move flames then CoA can be used if Corruption is already up and CoD is not.

Fact is regardless of fight mechanics if the fight duration isn't right, you'll never cast CoA anyway. CoD is simply a better spell as Destro and CoA isn't worth casting while not moving. The two combine for something you only cast in fringe situations and even when it's optimal the DPS gain is trivial.

[Optec]

What you do depends a lot on what's going on in the fight. It's not something with a single cut and dry answer. The most common one is that you should cast Incinerate anyway.

And no, CoA should almost never be cast and Corruption should never be put up unless a fight requires a lot of movement. The reason CoA shouldn't be used is that Incinerate has passed it on damage and since you should be using CoD you will not be able to CoA even when moving. The only time you'd use CoA is if a boss has 30-59 seconds to live and you have to move and CoD is not on the target. It's pretty rare for all three to line up in a fight.

Exactly the type of misinformation a video like this should clear up... but doesn't.

The video does mention when to cast CoA and when to cast CoD.

The poor spec and glyph choices you refer to came from a guide on this site . Did you even read the youtube video information .

I do not mention corruption as I consider it a fairly niche thing to do only on certain fights and while it could be included in a comment I didn't feel it was needed in a basic guide.

I should potentially have mentioned what to do with conflicting CDs all I do is never stop casting and if that means my immo drops off then that's fine as generally you can renew before the spell actually lands if you are far enough away. I've never had any problems just casting every spell when its off CD.

If CB and Conflag CDs sinc up I cast conflag then CB as I say in the video.

A lot of people are quite daunted by the great long posts about a spec going into the smallest detail about specifics you may only use in 10% of the fights. These people will likely respond better to the information if it is distilled and presented in a video form they can rewind and re listen to. Not saying these posts are bad just confusing to some people.

I appreciate comments but negative comments implying it's the worse 'guide' ever and shouldn't be viewed don't really help. I don't think anyone is going to watch this guide and turn into a worse destro lock . If you really feel strongly about it there is a simple solution ... make your own video guide.

[SoulRippped]

Normally, As others have stated your videos have alot of usefull information, however you have skipped one of the biggest flaws that alot of warlocks fail to know, and that is Pet Ai And spell que, You see Pets In this case the imp have very poor ai and they do not take advantage of this spelll que that we do theirfore the imp has to cast, than think what to cast. To fix this all main dps abilitys should have /cast fire bolt marco'd to them. Spamming this allows the normal 2.2-5 sec cast fireball to be more inline with the 2 sec cast beacuse you force him not to think but to do. the end damage you gain depends on gear but it is easily a 200+ dps increase


marco 1 marco 2
Exp /cast immolate /cast incinirate
/cast fire bolt /cast fire bolt

[Cyclone Duke]

marco 1 marco 2
Exp /cast immolate /cast incinirate
/cast fire bolt /cast fire bolt

Useful macro. Also means the raid gets to enjoy the imp's comments more ofte :3

[SoulRippped]

Useful macro. Also means the raid gets to enjoy the imp's comments more ofte :3

you should make it with conflag and chaos bolt aswell

[Deleted]

You may want to add:

/cast immolate
/cast [@pettarget] fire bolt

This means that your pet won't automatically switch to whatever you're targetting unless he doesn't already have a target

[Optec]

marco 1 marco 2
Exp /cast immolate /cast incinirate
/cast fire bolt /cast fire bolt

I mentioned this on the official wow forum but not here. I wasn't 100% that people were in agreement that this added DPS when I made the video. I use it myself so probably should have mentioned it. I will add a YouTube annotation explaining this when I get home. You can tell I use this as my imp never shuts up .

Dont forget to add
#showtooltip Immolate

As then the UI will show the right tooltip and CD. I have mine macroed to Incinerate and conflag but it seems people were are saying it might as well be macroed to everything .

My complete macro is:
#showtooltip Incinerate
/cast [target=pettarget,exists] Firebolt
/cast Incinerate

[harky]

Optec, you shouldn't be so concerned with negative or positive. It's hard to take negative criticism at times, but it's something you need to handle when presenting a work to the public. What's important is if the criticism is constructive. So here's a list:

1. Spec problems: Suppression spec should be discouraged. 18/53 Spec is using LT glyph. Imp SL spec is implied to only be needed with low spirit, but is a net gain over Suppression specs at any attainable level of spirit. I did read the description of the video, the issue is that both the build you used in the video and the alternate recommendations are all off, or poorly explained.

2. By using Black Magic in the video, even without mentioning it, you will encourage new Warlocks to use it. Using video as a medium means controlling visual queues and if you're using a bad enchant that can be seen visibly, but do not comment on that enchant others will assume it's what you recommend. See comments for that implication already being made.

3. At ~2:45 you recommend casting CoA instead of CoD if a boss will not survive. You do not mention that this is only while moving and if implemented in the manner you suggest is a DPS loss. Also does not mention that a boss must live for the entire duration due to being backloaded.

4. You do not discuss how to properly use Life Tap, or when it's best to refresh the Glyph of Life Tap. Someone watching will get the impression that they should cast it more often than is optimal. In your example run all of your Taps were actually poorly timed. Most line up with procs being active, or other mistiming. You don't mention using LT as a cooldown spacer, or other good times.

5. You don't discuss movement at all, which is one of the biggest hampers on Destro DPS. You will have to move when DPSing on almost every fight in a raid. Even an off-hand mention of Corruption use, or topping off mana during movement to limit the DPS loss would be nice.

This isn't the worst guide ever, by any means. It is going to give novices the wrong idea on a couple points though and could in fact make someone do worse. Either by using the spec/glyph recommendations, copying your weapon enchant, or getting spell priority mixed up.

[Optec]

Optec, you shouldn't be so concerned with negative or positive. It's hard to take negative criticism at times, but it's something you need to handle when presenting a work to the public. What's important is if the criticism is constructive. So here's a list:

1. Spec problems: Suppression spec should be discouraged. 18/53 Spec is using LT glyph. Imp SL spec is implied to only be needed with low spirit, but is a net gain over Suppression specs at any attainable level of spirit. I did read the description of the video, the issue is that both the build you used in the video and the alternate recommendations are all off, or poorly explained.

2. By using Black Magic in the video, even without mentioning it, you will encourage new Warlocks to use it. Using video as a medium means controlling visual queues and if you're using a bad enchant that can be seen visibly, but do not comment on that enchant others will assume it's what you recommend. See comments for that implication already being made.

3. At ~2:45 you recommend casting CoA instead of CoD if a boss will not survive. You do not mention that this is only while moving and if implemented in the manner you suggest is a DPS loss. Also does not mention that a boss must live for the entire duration due to being backloaded.

4. You do not discuss how to properly use Life Tap, or when it's best to refresh the Glyph of Life Tap. Someone watching will get the impression that they should cast it more often than is optimal. In your example run all of your Taps were actually poorly timed. Most line up with procs being active, or other mistiming. You don't mention using LT as a cooldown spacer, or other good times.

5. You don't discuss movement at all, which is one of the biggest hampers on Destro DPS. You will have to move when DPSing on almost every fight in a raid. Even an off-hand mention of Corruption use, or topping off mana during movement to limit the DPS loss would be nice.

This isn't the worst guide ever, by any means. It is going to give novices the wrong idea on a couple points though and could in fact make someone do worse. Either by using the spec/glyph recommendations, copying your weapon enchant, or getting spell priority mixed up.

This was a lot more constructively written and I appreciate the comments.

1. I am running with 0/13/58 atm and took the supression spec to hit the dummy without raid buffs. Its hard to talk about specs in a video guide without it being fairly dull and I didn't want to freeze on a shot of the talent pane for too long. But with a spec that has multiple options it would perhaps have been better to go into more detail.

2. True I am using black magic in the video mainly because I'm learning affliction for my next video and have read that most are using BM for this so I was trying it out. I decided re-enchanting my weapon for the video was unnecessary however I take your point. I should a dug out an old weapon .

3. Didn't realise it was a DPS loss to cast CoA on low health if not moving didn't run the numbers myself. I just figured it was better to have a lower damage curse than nothing atall didn't think one GCD would cost that much. But I will assume you are correct and take the point.

4. Didn't realise I was doing anything especially wrong with life tap and didn't mention it because I tend not to think about it and I suppose it applies to all specs. I generally do use it as a dot spacer if I can but don't focus on it. I think this would be better placed in a general warlock guide rather than a specific spec guide.

5. True I dont talk about movement but again its fairly complex and fight specific to explain all eventualities. A few general tips would be useful but again this could apply to all (although as you say destruction suffers more from this and I suppose demo for the same reason). Perhaps a general guide is in order I clearly have some things to learn myself but I never claimed to be the master .

Perhaps with your help further down the line I could make a general guide.

[harky]

3: It's something that's much more complex than a lot of people understand, but in general since CoA is so difficult to work into the rotation due to the randomness of time to death calculations and fight durations it's hard to ever get CoA right as Destro unless moving. While moving it's pretty simple, if you have Corruption up, CoD is down and you don't need to LT then CoA is a damage gain.

4: That's kind of the point. If you're using the LT glyph then not thinking about it is a rather large DPS hit. It's mostly a Desto thing as well. It's very, very easy to LT as Afflic or Demo. Demo you don't need to monitor the glyph at all, the mana consumption is high enough that you're required to keep it up. You replace a SB with it when no procs are up and that's that. Afflic you just work it into the SB portions of the rotation. It's really not a general Warlock thing, because the other 2 specs can have LT use summed up very quickly.

5: Movement is pretty simple as Destro really. First priority is LT if you're not an ISL spec, or if you're an ISL spec and using the LT glyph. Second priority is CoD. Third priority is Corruption. Fourth priority is CoA. Fifth priority is Shadowfury/Shadowburn if you have one of the two.

[Chucklenuts]

One thing about the discussion of LT Glyph.... Destro Warlocks should stop using it really.

Spirit itemization in the current gear is low... very low for warlocks... which means that overall... as far as destruction warlocks go... the Spec that scales the best with the gear right now is 0/13/58 with Imp SL, This is backed up by theorycrafting info at EJ as well.

It also means that In most cases... Destruction Warlocks still using the LT glyph are experiencing a DPS loss due to this loss of spirit in the itemization when chasing best in slot or near best in slot items, and would be better served by swapping out to the immolate glyph.

My warlock in particular has gone from about 900 to under 400 spirit... LT Glyph is no longer a DPS gain over the Immolate glyph, so I've switched... (this is based on my own simcraft runs with my warlocks gear)

Now, with the new immolate coming in 3.3.3, it means that as a Destruction Warlock, the best combination of Glyphs will be Immolate/Incinerate/Conflagrate, with a 0/13/58 spec....

Oh, side note.... From my knowledge... even as affliction, Black Magic is terrible since they removed the rolling haste from Corruption, Haste is still worth less point for point than Spellpower and when you work out how much haste over time Black magic actually gives, it comes out to 62.5.... Now, if you run simcraft and parse your scale factors and haste comes out to be more valuable than Spellpower, then yes, BM is fine... but there's only a very, very specific time that this would be true.

[harky]

1. 18/53 does better in full 264 than 13/58 and on live Imp beats Immo for that spec.
2. As mentioned in earlier posts, it doesn't matter what BiS gear is, it matters what your gear is. If you have more than +70 on gear then LT beats Immo for 13/58 and ties with Imp.
3. Haste is almost always better than SP as Afflic, but it is not enough better than 10 haste beats 12 SP. This is why Black Magic wins and SP/Haste is taken in all yellows, but why +23 SP and 12 SP/10 Spi are still used. Black Magic is always equal, or very slightly better than +63 SP, but typically loses to +81 on staffs.

As far as 3.3.3 changes... well, Immolate probably will be used by both Destro specs, but we don't know yet. Imp is enough better than Immo for 18/53 that the extra little bit of worth that only applies to the DoT portion of Immolate may not be enough to push it past Imp. Then again it might, we need to see how the PTR tweaks buffs and how a proper sim registers the two.