Raid Accessibility to PuGs

[Zraal *Yes, ima DK*]

So, I had what I thought was a rather good idea, to make PuGing easier.

Basically, raid instances would be split up into several parts, with quests linking them together (think ICC heroics)
So instead of 12 bosses, it would be 4, 3, 2, 3 (For ICC) and PuGs could do them separately, so for people who dont have the time to pug all of it at once, they can do it in smaller increments.

This would have no effect on "Hard Core" Raiders, but would make it easier, and less stressful for PuGs.
Examples...
1: Your raid failed on Lady D. Oh noes! D: But its OK! I can still have a go at plague works bosses this week.
2: Hardcore raiding guild, needs nothing from 1st wing. Puts it on "Farm" and members can PuG it, and the rest of the guild goes straight to Plague, or W/E


This gives flexibility to PuGing raiders in the way that they can continue a raid after a fail, so long as they have done the correct pre-requisites to get into the next wing.
This stops people from being "Cock-Blocked" and missing out from there 8th boss loot, because of a fail on one of the 1st few.
This allows players to experience LONG raids without reforming, or having to be in a raiding guild.


Ideas/Suggestions/Criticism?

[Kyiran]

So you're saying to extend the wing concept of raids to put them in seperate instances. I like it.

[Zraal *Yes, ima DK*]

So you're saying to extend the wing concept of raids to put them in seperate instances. I like it.

But, you cannot just ninja into the Lich King without doing the right quests and the other wings 1st... Like Attunments, sort of.

[Triston]

It's a decent idea, but good luck finding a pug that gets much further than Saurfang anyway.

[Ganoes]

Downed Putricide in a pug yesterday on my warrior alt. Many pugs get that far these days. Especially 10 man pugs.

[Triston]

Downed Putricide in a pug yesterday on my warrior alt. Many pugs get that far these days. Especially 10 man pugs.

I have made it a practice to not believe anything you post.

[Ganoes]

Good for you I guess. Why would I lie about that?

[fzhfzh]

I guess the point is not really on whether the pug can get past saurfang, but more pug raids don't have 25 people who have a large chunk of free time for anything beyond, and it's not exactly possible for pugs to get back together another day, so for that week it's simply stopped at saurfang. However, if you split the wings up, you can do one wing on saturday, another wing with a different pug on sunday and so on.

[Niter]

I have stopped raiding since the end of BC because of drama, people performing poorly and so on.

I think an idea like this could make me wanna raid again. It would be much easier to get stuff done and actually see more of the content without having to go through some problematic mechanics that wipes the raid because a freaking DK or Hunter did something wrong. haha

Too bad what I see is something like Marrowgar 25 when the raid weekly came out. It is a ridiculously easy fight, everything he does is laughable but your healers will not get close to the rest of the group and spikes will take them out long enough so tanks die. Tanks do not protect the raid properly and cleaves kill people. Even the trash before the boss is so funny, some guy just run all the way in the middle and... hahaha

Raids are not that hard and mechanics are rather simple to learn and to perform well enough. Too bad most people have a terrible time LISTENING or READING what the raid leader says.

I like the idea though. I would go for it anytime =]

[Shaaman]

Personally I hate pugs and everything about them. The amount of idiots, all the bitching, all the ninjas, all the impatience and all the loot whores. I really can't see how anyone enjoy pugs. I honestly dont have any good experiences from puging at all.

Why would you want blizzard to encourage pugs? I don't understand why you dont get a casual guild yourself instead of joining those pugs.

[Zraal *Yes, ima DK*]

Making the game accessible to PuGs is fine and well, but if you can't scrape together 2 hours to raid...maybe raiding is just not your thing?

2 Hours is not the problem, thats fine, but are you saying that you could do a full clear of Ulduar, with a couple of HM's thrown in, in 2 hours? Sure, 2 hours is about all you are going to get with any ICC PuG atm, at least on my server, but when they roll out the stacking buff, i am sure ICC wont just be the 1st 4-5 bosses for the normal PuG anymore

[Kanrell]

Why would you want blizzard to encourage pugs? I don't understand why you dont get a casual guild yourself instead of joining those pugs.

Blizz have allredy made the dungeon system and that is realy pug friendly system. In the same patch they made another system were you can queue your self up in raid isntaces and that is allso a pug friendly system so I think Blizzard are making the game more pug friendly for the rest of the ppl that are not able to raid with HC/casual guilds on some pre set times.
Some ppl have just diffirent times at work and can´t be as flexeble as many other and can´t raid every week on the same time so puging will give them more raiding time then with a casual guild.

I like this idea of making the wings seperate isntaces. I will atleast make a huge difference to my play style.
And about the thing not finding a pug that can make it past saurfang, well, if we had the chance of going to plague wing with out getting saved, the ppl would start learning the fight much faster and therfor the progress in the pugs would be much more. But ofc hardcore ppl dont like seeing that!

[Ganoes]

Personally I hate pugs and everything about them. The amount of idiots, all the bitching, all the ninjas, all the impatience and all the loot whores. I really can't see how anyone enjoy pugs. I honestly dont have any good experiences from puging at all.

Why would you want blizzard to encourage pugs? I don't understand why you dont get a casual guild yourself instead of joining those pugs.

I've had many good experiences with pugs. I pug many raids a week as well, because only my main runs with guild. My alts (warrior and rogue) run the same raids in a pug. Not as many bosses will get downed and I might get really unlucky, but my warrior has 44k unbuffed hp and a 3050 wow-heroes score and I got every single thing he is wearing from pugs. So it's still possible to get very geared using pugs alone.

[Stings]

Downed Putricide in a pug yesterday on my warrior alt. Many pugs get that far these days. Especially 10 man pugs.

Thats not a pug

[Ganoes]

Thats not a pug

What isn't? 10 man pugs don't count?

[Maeco]

Its perfectly possible to have succesful PuG's. Of course it depends on the server and time when you form it.

Forming one in the middle of a saturday afternoon yields different people than one you form at 22.00 tuesday night, for obvious reasons. Also, I ran PuG's with players from different guilds whom you might have played before.

I play on Zenedar which is an ancient server with a very well established community. The leading PvE guilds are all interconnected, forming a player run faction on their own. PuGGing with players from those interconnected guilds always lead to succesful runs. This has mainly to do with the maturity and relaxxed attitude. Noone really cares if you make a mistake once that wipes the raid, we all know it doesn't happen frequently anyway.

You also know exactly when you don't run within them, your chances for succes drop hugely. Same goes with the attitude of the fellow raiders, all just VERY short term thinkers, who rather scream n00b at you, then provide constructive improvements to the tactics.


Not so long ago, 3 servers got free migrations to Zenedar and you could see the community quality drop like a brick. All the native PvE guilds locked down for a few weeks and kept to themselfs for awhile.

For the time being no effective PuG's will take off. However, its still possible with the right people.

As for the origin of the thread, I really like the idea of clearing individual bosses per week instead of full Raid ID lockouts.