how to fix pvp/make it enjoyable/afk not punishable

[divzero]

I enjoy battlegrounds. I actually enjoy them most while leveling, before and after the xp gains from honor changes. Horde doesn't do so well in my battlegroup, either, but I still enjoy it.

OPs post is full of awful ideas. As stated by others, if server transfers worked to even out realm populations you wouldn't see the same servers having the free transfer option(ie, Mal'Ganis), as is typical now.

The other ideas(free arena gear, current battlegrounds as world pvp, level10vs80 pvp, blah blah) are so dumb you best be trolling.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

[Kyyzen]

you are still posting? lol i thought i made an example out of you.

Yep in your own little world you made an example of me hahahaha while in reality everyone agrees with me and rejects your idea.

Nobody will agree with you as long as this post is up.

So this is what I want you to do. If you still think that your "removing bg's and making them all world events" is a logical plan. Go back and counter argue your counter arguers. This might let people know you aren't a complete moron and can actually back yourself up rather than calling them idiots or saying they are just assuming their whole post.

Look at how many posts you have... about 115 posts... of complete idiocy.

So just in recap before you rage again. Give us more details on your plan. Let's get some logic and statistics in your report other than "I lose I QQ I rage Uridiot."

(btw making all the battlegrounds world events would just make the game more laggy)

[jereminion]

Firstly you're assuming we're arguing? I guess because you're not hearing what you want to hear so you're considering it an argument, I'd say we were discussing, but hey.

-its a hard concept to understand so i will lay it out for you. when two people do not agree on something, i agree, it may be considered a discussion. it is also considered an argument.

Wanting to transfer for PVE reasons is very different to wanting to transfer for PVP reasons.
Where was this survey? And what people did you speak to, people from every battlegroup? I'm actually assuming nothing really, since I'm only going by what you've said and how you're using it to reinforce your point.

-'Wanting to transfer for PVE reasons is very different to wanting to transfer for PVP reasons.' this creates an entire different discussion of how much you have assumed this conclusion. if you want to transfer for pve and the only option is to transfer for a low populated faction, you WOULD enter pvp at least for wintergrasp for vault PVE if not battlegrounds at least. it is illogical to not enter wintergrasp to do vault because easy bosses give the best tier gear.

All Battle[bold]groups[/bold] are different, but to experience 50 minute queues during normal daytime hours indicates a Battlegroup that isn't normal.

-not all battle groups are the same you cannot assume like i have said many times.

It matters very much. To say you experience 50 minute queues I thought you might have been talking about like 30-39 bracket, but to get that sort of queue in the 70-79 bracket reinforces my previous point.

-do you have a list of generalized times that each bracket takes to join the battle ground or are you pulling information out of your ass again? unless so, it does not matter.

Your argument is 'remove BG's because my battlegroup sucks for levelling' basically, you're lucky anyone is giving you a reply longer than 'no'.
Again you with your double-standards, you're assuming my faction on my battlegroup(Blackout EU) and that's why I'm disagreeing with you. We lose almost all the time, the only thing we would usually win was AV and now that's not the case.
So don't go assuming that everyone that thinks your idea is ridiculous is on the winning side because you're wrong, you just have a terrible idea and can't take negative criticism.

-so you are against the idea of balancing and fixing battle grounds even though you are part of the minority of groups who constantly lose battle grounds? totally dismissing my ideas? why am i arguing with you; youre insane and illogical.

Still, you can always level the original way if the xp in your battlegroup sucks.

-nice filler to end an empty and meaningless arguement

[jereminion]

I enjoy battlegrounds. I actually enjoy them most while leveling, before and after the xp gains from honor changes. Horde doesn't do so well in my battlegroup, either, but I still enjoy it.

OPs post is full of awful ideas. As stated by others, if server transfers worked to even out realm populations you wouldn't see the same servers having the free transfer option(ie, Mal'Ganis), as is typical now.

The other ideas(free arena gear, current battlegrounds as world pvp, level10vs80 pvp, blah blah) are so dumb you best be trolling.

Thanks for the laugh, though.

you just registered to post that? you could be one of those other people i have verbally destroyed and are too ashamed to post on your real account. i am just assuming that, which is hypocritical, because your single post should not be taken seriously. you dismiss my ideas as if you have your own logical arguement, but you do not. hard to take someone like that seriously.

[Rayzan]

Hahahahahaha this takes the cake as the most retarded post i have ever read on mmo. You're crazy once you said remove all battlegrounds and then I felt increasingly dumber and I read on. You have killed some of my brain cells whch I will now never get back, thank you very much.

Pvp gear should be free???!! Lol I had to read that a couple times to believe you actually wrote it. If you really think that the top arena teams got there because they farmed their gear than you have no clue what you're talking about. You can be full wrathful in an arena, and although it will give you an advantage, it is NOT winning the game for you. There's a lot of skill involved to get into the high ratings of arena.

You're just another "i don't want to work for my gear, this game is too hard for me. I'm a casual and want everything handed to me" QQer.

[Kyyzen]

-so you are against the idea of balancing and fixing battle grounds even though you are part of the minority of groups who constantly lose battle grounds? totally dismissing my ideas? why am i arguing with you; youre insane and illogical.

Still, you can always level the original way if the xp in your battlegroup sucks.

-nice filler to end an empty and meaningless arguement

I don't see how your ideas are going to "fix" battlegrounds need more information/statistics you have failed horribly to inform us how your system is going to work.

[Ander1345]

Why do you just quote people without saying anything? You keep talking like you've made some awesome argument but you are saying nothing.

The reason your ideas are bad is because they only take into account what you want. It's easy to say that people you talked to said this. I doubt people are as extreme as you in wanting to do away with BG's. BG's are fun. If you can't handle losing then don't play them. Do you think the server could handle having hundreds of people in every zone trying to pvp? Do you see what happens in Wintergrasp?

Backing up your ideas with "people told me that" means nothing. Why should we even care what these people think? They're not experts at game design. All they do is play it. Your ideas are just too extreme and don't make enough sense to warrant a constructive discussion. It's time to move on.

[Hardalor]

Why do you just quote people without saying anything? You keep talking like you've made some awesome argument but you are saying nothing.

No no. He actually is. He's just yet to learn how to split quotes. And there's no assumptions there, cause I see it every time he replies to a multi-point post.

[jereminion]

Hahahahahaha this takes the cake as the most retarded post i have ever read on mmo. You're crazy once you said remove all battlegrounds and then I felt increasingly dumber and I read on. You have killed some of my brain cells whch I will now never get back, thank you very much.

Pvp gear should be free???!! Lol I had to read that a couple times to believe you actually wrote it. If you really think that the top arena teams got there because they farmed their gear than you have no clue what you're talking about. You can be full wrathful in an arena, and although it will give you an advantage, it is NOT winning the game for you. There's a lot of skill involved to get into the high ratings of arena.

You're just another "i don't want to work for my gear, this game is too hard for me. I'm a casual and want everything handed to me" QQer.

the idiotic population of mmo-champion are lining up to take verbal punishment tonight. they will not get a proper response because it would be a waste of time to keep repeating how stupid they are. i guess i will continue this when the people who use logic and reason are back online.

[Hardalor]

the idiotic population of mmo-champion are lining up to take verbal punishment tonight.

Where?

... ... OH WAIT. ;D

[Texco]

-its a hard concept to understand so i will lay it out for you. when two people do not agree on something, i agree, it may be considered a discussion. it is also considered an argument.

Don't patronise me you moron, let me try explaining this to you as you can't seem to grasp it, an argument and a discussion are different things.
Though yes I'd consider it more of an arguement since people are trying to pound sense into you and you just keep coming back with 'lol dont assume gaise!'

-'Wanting to transfer for PVE reasons is very different to wanting to transfer for PVP reasons.' this creates an entire different discussion of how much you have assumed this conclusion. if you want to transfer for pve and the only option is to transfer for a low populated faction, you WOULD enter pvp at least for wintergrasp for vault PVE if not battlegrounds at least. it is illogical to not enter wintergrasp to do vault because easy bosses give the best tier gear.

You're using the fact that people want to migrate for PVE reasons as a backup for your idea, it's a bad one.

-do you have a list of generalized times that each bracket takes to join the battle ground or are you pulling information out of your ass again? unless so, it does not matter.

No, ask anyone and they'll tell you a 50 minute queue for 70-79 bracket in normal playing hours is not normal. I'd root around for information inside your ass if your head wasn't firmly wedged in there.

-so you are against the idea of balancing and fixing battle grounds even though you are part of the minority of groups who constantly lose battle grounds? totally dismissing my ideas? why am i arguing with you; youre insane and illogical.

Your argument is to remove battlegrounds because you keep losing! Removing them isn't balancing or fixing.
I'm not insane or illogical, I maintain an un-biased opinion. Crazy huh?

-nice filler to end an empty and meaningless arguement

You consider it empty and meaningless because I'm not telling you want you want to hear.

[Kyyzen]

the idiotic population of mmo-champion are lining up to take verbal punishment tonight. they will not get a proper response it because it would be a waste of time to keep repeating how stupid they are. i guess i will continue this when the people who use logic and reason are back online.

Because your using sooo much logic yourself

go ahead wait till morning you will just have more people laughing at you... a lot more haha I might even tell my guildies to post on this as well and they allllll disagree with you all 56 of them online.

[Tyrianth]

Here's an idea, if you don't like BGs then don't queue for them. BEcause judging from the responses in this thread -you- are the minority in saying that they should go. Companies like Blizzard don't cater to minorities.

[divzero]

you just registered to post that? you could be one of those other people i have verbally destroyed and are too ashamed to post on your real account. i am just assuming that, which is hypocritical, because your single post should not be taken seriously. you dismiss my ideas as if you have your own logical arguement, but you do not. hard to take someone like that seriously.

Actually, yeah, seeing your completely retarded post compelled me to register and chime in. The fact you think you 'verbally destroyed' anyone is laughable, as you don't directly respond to arguments, but instead say "NOT ON MY BATTLEGROUP/SERVER, BRO". Why not respond to the single argument I presented?

Again, thanks for the laughs.

[Moshy]

Guys, Come on this is such an obvious troll here.

[Hardalor]

Guys, Come on this is such an obvious troll here.

But daddy, I wanna play with the troll!

[Endus]

-you speak for everyone? amazing. i dont exactly speak for everyone but the people i actually talk to about this rather than pulling information out of my ass tell me they would transfer as soon as they could just for PVE reasons.

Of course I don't speak for everyone, and I never claimed to. Nice attempt at a straw man, however.

I know quite a few people who've server transferred. They've transferred because of bad blood, because they wanted a server with better progression/higher population, because they wanted to try Horde (when race change and server change were available, but PvP realms were still faction-restricted).

I know nobody who transferred away from their friends and guild to a low population server because it was free. I'm sure it happens, but I'm also sure it's not the majority of server transfers.

-its impossible to win WOW, is that a problem for you? also the first thing i proposed was free transfers to low populated factions so balance would not be an issue.

It's impossible to win WoW because they keep providing new content to beat. If you've got the Lich King on farm and top-tier PvP gear, you've basically "won" in every sense that matters. Until new content comes out.

What you're talking about removes even those incremental victories in favor of a communist welfare-fest.

-cant talk about something i havent witnessed or experienced like some people are in this thread.

I'm sure you can talk about publicly released official patch notes that have been posted on the main page of the very site you're posting on.

-wg isnt perminant. they can change it to match the rest of the world pvp. not my job to redesign it, this is about battle ground changes.

If it were made a constant battle, it would defeat the entire purpose of Wintergrasp. PvP is a much more complicated thing than simply a mindless zergfest at the opponents. And this is a good thing.

-they award pvp gear to afk farmers which goes against your arguement.
-the gear you can buy with honor would do just fine in arena. thats the point. you win some battle grounds for a few weeks then get upgrades.

Nothing you've suggested would solve the problem of AFK farmers. Also, report them. The tool exists for a reason.
As for the gear, you said, and I quote; "they would do battlegrounds for honor so they can get arena gear." This is simply false, and now you're trying to move the goalposts by claiming you meant something entirely different than what you actually said.

Arena gear is bought with arena points and requires arena rating. What you're talking about is not arena gear. So either stop changing your argument, or say what you mean in the first place.

-the losing faction already solved the problem with losing. they either dont queue, or AFK farm. im not sure what you mean by 'You're arguing for communism, where everyone gets the same stuff regardless of their performance. You think some guy sitting there AFK "deserves" the same gear as the best player on your server.' this is no where mentioned in my post and basically goes against what i say. AFK farmers already get gear for doing nothing, which is why battle grounds are flawed and world pvp is better.

What I meant by that quote was in a direct response to the part I cited immediately before, which I will repeat here; "usually one side gets 3x or more of a reward 100% of the time because of constant winning." This was a complaint on your part. Which suggests you think losers should get equal rewards. Otherwise, you'd have been commenting on the win/loss ratio, not the rewards.

Also, you're returning to your self-perpetuating myth that you lose because you lose. Get a premade, make an effort. You'll win. A lot. You keep losing because you're trying to run BGs without making any real effort to win. "Real" effort meaning you cooperate with your teammates to engage in strategic maneuvers. If you're all zerging all over the place in an uncoordinated mess, you deserve the loss, every time.

-it is not a player problem it is the battle ground system problem. you really think 22 horde can beat 40 alliance? they arent even all level 'x9', even if they were the most skilled they would lose.

You're probably not playing at peak times.

Also, since population numbers are battlegroup-wide, meaning it's an average of the populations on several servers, pulling battlegrounds back to server-specific would only make this worse. Instead of 22 Horde vs 40 Alliance, you'd see 60 Horde vs 12 Alliance.

And if you're not the highest level for the bracket, of course you'll be underperforming. That's deliberate.

-so you are saying since i am not doing my best it is all my fault? seriously, how can you tell me that i am not being a leader in the BGS? another assumption by a dumbass. obviously when you see someone farming kills in the middle of WSG you tell them to stop. but your words arent the divine plan. there is not leadership in battle grounds. you are calling me irrational, yet you are assuming things about me for sake of your own pathetic 'argument'.

I'm not assuming anything, I'm extrapolating from your own comments and experiences.

I can tell you're not being a leader in BGs because you're losing constantly. Being a strong and successful leader takes far, far more than barking orders. It means getting groups together, communicating your plan so that most will follow your lead, and reacting to changing circumstances. If you won't take responsibility for doing this, then yes, losing is your fault, and everyone else like you who refuses to step up.

My server is roughly 2.5:1 Horde:Alliance, and I'm Alliance. I hear people complain constantly that we "can't win Wintergrasp because there's so many more Horde". When I head to Wintergrasp, I win about half the time. Because if nobody else has a plan, I try and take over. Most of the time when we win, we win within 10 minutes. Do we win every time? No. Sometimes Horde react well, and their advantages overwhelm us. Sometimes nobody listens, or they listen to someone else whose plan is doomed to failure. But if they listen, and follow my lead, we usually win.

And I'm not some amazing PvP strategist. The plan usually consists of "Zerg the west walls". The Horde on our server aren't the best at reacting; they tend to rely on their numbers and the general lack of strategy on the part of the Alliance, to win. But, if someone like me didn't step up and try and get people moving on a plan that works, most people would just run around aimlessly and we'd rack up another loss. You seem to be taking this as a personal assault, but the only way that could be true is if you know full well I'm right and you're being deliberately lazy and wanting people to hand you free wins.


Also, for the love of god learn how to open and close quotes in your replies. Quoting these giant single blocks is a pain.

[Texco]

the idiotic population of mmo-champion are lining up to take verbal punishment tonight. they will not get a proper response because it would be a waste of time to keep repeating how stupid they are. i guess i will continue this when the people who use logic and reason are back online.

Like I said you should review your posts because you fail at splitting quotes. But hey it's not like you haven't said anything stupid in this thread right? :

You think everyone here is lacking logic and reason when the actual fact of the matter is your idea is ridiculous, but you're either too stupid or stubborn to see it.

[Kyyzen]

He's probably going to wake up and be like

"Oh jeez I was drunk off my ass!!! WHAT why would I post such illogical crap!!! I must be a complete idiot who assumes things when I'm drunk!!"

[Endus]

the idiotic population of mmo-champion are lining up to take verbal punishment tonight. they will not get a proper response because it would be a waste of time to keep repeating how stupid they are. i guess i will continue this when the people who use logic and reason are back online.

Just an FYI, your "arguments" thus far have consisted mostly of ad hominem attacks, appeals to ridicule, and unwarranted arrogance.

It might help your case if you could rationally defend any of the points people raised against your ideas rather than ranting like some spiteful little Glenn Beck wannabe.