Shadow idea

[yoreert]

i wish blizz would make sw:d a lot more viable, in that we could use flay to keep vt/dp and sw up (like how we can use flay to keep sw up now, only it would refresh vt and dp as well), using sw:d and mb off cd in between flay ticks.

"If words could make wishes come true..."

[minusxero]

I don't. Doing that would basically make spriests a 2-button class. Faceroll is not fun.

[yoreert]

three buttons once dots are app'd. sw:d, mb and flay.

[AetherMcLoud]

a) ridiculous idea
b) how did this get stickied?

The only thing I wish blizz would do is change the code so you can cast 2 MFs back-to-back even with latency just as you can cast 2 Frostbolts back-to-back.

[Kelesti]

It's not even that it'd be a two button class (Shadow Word: Death isn't commonly cast now, what would make the difference with your changes?), but you're destroying the complexity that makes the spec what it is.

Faceroll is not fun.

This sums up my thoughts on that.

Also, from a balance standpoint, you can't really justify having more than half your DPS as "passive damage" ontop of spells you're already casting. That's just bad gameplay design, there's no other words for it.


Edit: And sorry, Aether, that's the first time I did a Post-Split (from the Shadow DPS 101 thread) and I'm still working out the kinks of some of these buttons :P Hence the three second sticky.

[AetherMcLoud]

Also, from a balance standpoint, you can't really justify having more than half your DPS as "passive damage" ontop of spells you're already casting. That's just bad gameplay design, there's no other words for it.

That's not bad gameplay design, that's being a melee
Short aside: Our 10-man ICC mage and rogue are roommates. The mage wasn't there for an hour because of traffic. So the rogue logs in with the mage too. On Saurfang he played his buddies mage the whole fight because we needed the mage for the adds. Had the rogue autoattack Saurfang.

The rogue did 3,5k DPS, with autoattacks only.

OK, that's probably bad gameplay design

Edit: And sorry, Aether, that's the first time I did a Post-Split (from the Shadow DPS 101 thread) and I'm still working out the kinks of some of these buttons :P Hence the three second sticky.

I thought something like that

[yoreert]

this is odd: i didn't post this as a shadow idea, it was a post in another thread about shadow priests. >.>

[Direshadow]

I'd much rather have some sort of recastable nuke spell. Perhaps something like a shadow bolt, but with the added effect of applying a debuff to the target which increases the healing we receive from VE by a certain percentage. This would help in PVP as well.

[minusxero]

Read Kelesti's post yoreert.

Half (if not more) of what I enjoy about Spriest DPS is the juggling of DoTs around priority.

On top of making the rotation faceroll, your idea would make Spriest DPS ridiculously stupid in some cases. Take (oh off the top of my head) Lady Deathwhisper's fight. DoT up the overly talkative bitch, DoT up adds, then just tab + mindflay for the whole fight. Um, what?

Further, if the mechanics for the MF refresh weren't changed, then haste would NOT be reset per channel, meaning if you play your cards right, you'd have a VT and DP with Troll Racial, Engi Glove trinket, Bloodlust/Heroism and speed pot on your target for the entire boss fight. Holy crap.

[yoreert]

it's not usually the flow of ideas to make things MORE complicated. for anyone saying the shadow priest class is hard to play or complex is laughable - no matter what it will always be PRESS THE BUTTON THAT LIGHTS UP AT THE RIGHT TIME. get over yourself if you love the class because you think it's "complex" or thought provoking. my suggestion was merely that, a suggestion - *i* think it would be better to make sw:d more viable, so we could have THREE casts, mb/sw:d and mind flay, after dotting up a target and having m. flay keep the dots up. there's nothing complex about world of warcraft, all i was saying is let's not have dead spells in our spriest rotation.

[AetherMcLoud]

PRESS THE BUTTON THAT LIGHTS UP AT THE RIGHT TIME.

If you're content with having 3k dps, yes that's all you need to do.

[Tofsz]

If you're content with having 3k dps, yes that's all you need to do.

the complexity that makes the spec what it is.

Dot is falling off? Refresh.
Mind Blast available? Mind Blast.
Dots up and Mind Blast on CD? Mind Flay.

Got forbid you have to switch targets or move, then things could really get complicated!

[yoreert]

Dot is falling off? Refresh.
Mind Blast available? Mind Blast.
Dots up and Mind Blast on CD? Mind Flay.

Got forbid you have to switch targets or move, then things could really get complicated!

HEY GUYS LETS TURN THIS IN TO QUANTUM PHYSICS SO I CAN FEEL SELF IMPORTANT!

lol

[minusxero]

Dot is falling off? Refresh.
Mind Blast available? Mind Blast.
Dots up and Mind Blast on CD? Mind Flay.

Got forbid you have to switch targets or move, then things could really get complicated!

use(speedpot or critpot);
cast(shadowfiend);
use(hastebuffs.all);
cast(VT,DP,MF,SWP);
if(MB < GCD)
{
if(opinion(MF>MB)==true)
cast(MF);
else
cast(MB);
}
if(var time(refreshVTDP) <= time(hastebuff))
cast(VT,DP);
else
cast(MF);
if(movement()==true)
cast(SWD);
if(movement()==true||time(refreshVT) <= time(move-

Ah fuck it. I just wanted to try writing it out.

[Zeuq]

If you want to argue that Shadow Priests aren't complicated, well, it depends on perspective. When looking at a number of other classes that have simpler rotations or priority systems, it is fairly complicated. Then again, none of the classes are particularly difficult once you've learned the right rotation/priority, so sure, it's pretty simple. When you're talking about trying to squeeze every last bit of DPS out on high-end progression raiding, there's a lot of difficult split-second decisions to make. However, if you're reasonably happy doing pretty decent DPS by just casting whatever ability lights up, then it's pretty much a faceroll class. But Tofsz, if that's how you play, you won't achieve optimal DPS output.

That said, this idea is terrible for the simple reason that it completely eliminates the skill component involved in choosing how to manage priority collisions or making maximum use of time between CDs. There would no longer be any decisions at all and literally no difference between an average player and an exceptional one, because you'd just have to get your DoTs up, and mash those 3 buttons. Besides, it seems the claim here that you're making is that the current DPS priority is already simple, and yet this idea would make it even simpler. As others said, this would essentially make Shadow Priests ranged melee, because they'd have a lot of passive damage from auto-attack (akin to all DoTs auto-refreshing), and their DPS would mostly be limited by CDs (MB and SW), and then they have rage/energy/mana dumps that they use in between (basically what MF would be). If that's really the kind of class you want to play, reroll to a class designed for that sort of DPS mechanic that is already balanced for it and that would have more abilities to work with.


That said, I do think SW should be made more useful, but there are more interesting ways to do it. I think making it into some kind of burst damage mechanic would make it useful for PVP and adds, but not really interfere much with the current priority. For instance, one idea that I'd had before was to have it essentially be a DPS version of swiftmend, such that it would apply all of a DoT at once (probably choose between VT and DP), and still have a CD. It would have obvious use in PVP, similar to how it's used now. It would also be good for adds because it could still be worth DoTing low-health adds because you could then apply all the damage at once. It could even play in a BL/hero mechanic by allowing you to dump your current DoTs quickly and reapply to take full advantage of the added haste. Hell, you could even add a glyph to make it not consume the DoT (like the swiftmend glyph), and that would be interesting too because if you use it in a PVE rotation when your DoTs are nearly expired, it would be a DPS loss, while it could be a nice DPS gain if done soon after applying it.

Even if you don't like that idea, there's tons of ways to make SW useful without completely changing the mechanics of the class in a way that would, as demonstrated by this thread, be poorly received.

[eErike]

Maintaining a high dot up time while using MB off cd isn't hard at all if it's a single target, it's on fights where you keep VT+refreshing SW:P on multiple targets it gets tricky, for example holding on to that SW:P on deathwisper without lacking dps on the adds, that's the tricky and funnie part of a shadow priest.
And On topic, nonono

[Serenityx]

Yeah I like that there is some kind of skill involved in getting really good dps as a shadow priest. MB and SW ..../sigh MB they just need to bump the damn coefficient to something decent and SW with that kind of CD and low damage you would think they would add a buff/aura element to it when it was thrown.

P.S. i would really like an instant cast VT, but then it would get nerfed because it would be OP in PVP. PVP has been the cause of many pve mechanics/spells getting nerfed to the ground, obviously i hate pvp for this reason.

[TheRabidDeer]

SW:death has its uses. Need to move? Hit it on the move.

[Abandon]

I do quite miss the fact that SW has fallen out of our rotation and is only used if there is literally no other option, but I would quite like if it had some synergy with Mind Blast, a bit like the Balance druid talents. Perhaps casting one could increase the damage of the other for a short time, or increase the chance to crit with it, or even something like casting SW finishes the cooldown on Mind Blast.

[Serenityx]

casting SW finishes the cooldown on Mind Blast.

^This plus more damage on MB, in it's current state it would still be a dps loss.