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  1. #1

    Frost glyph suggestion

    I had made a suggestion on the official forums that got literally zero response. Was wondering if it was really that bad an idea so I come to you guys.

    "Glyph of Deep Freeze
    Whenever your deep freeze ability deals damage, the cooldown is reset to 15 seconds.

    This would make it functionally the same in pvp and give pve a boost. "

    This should be a nice boost to pve damage and do nothing to pvp when wordered this way. Good idea, bad idea?

  2. #2

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    We don't have room for another glyph. This would boost our dps due to DF, then reduce it because we drop either MA, WE, or FB glyph. We need a non-glyph fix at this point for frost to work.

  3. #3

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    That's a good point. What would you think if that was just a core functionality of deep freeze then?

  4. #4
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    How about just adding something like this instead:

    Your Ice Lance criticals against frozen targets increase the damage of your next Deep Freeze against that target by 30%. Stacks to 5.

    Now your Fingers of Frost procs aren't 'wasted' when Deep Freeze is on cooldown, because you buff the next Deep Freeze, but not enough that you'd skip using a Deep Freeze to apply the buff.

  5. #5

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    That would be a bit too much, if you do that then your making it so that deep freeze hits for like 60k damage. instead of trying to think of ways to increase the burst, which is fine imo, try to think of current glyph changes to the consistent damage that a frost mage deals. How about something to the effect of changing the glyph of frostbolt from 5% raw damage to an increase in spell power contribution. With the 5% increase that they're doing in 3.3.3, on top of that glyph frost would get the same percentage of spellpower contribution as it was originally, 20%, not the nerfed 10% it gets right now. This would increase the sustained dps from frost without jacking your dps to 15k with a dramatic drop back to 6-8k after only 10 or 15 seconds, as with your proposed change to glyph of deep freeze. Not to mention if you touch back to what Skarrd said, we can't afford to lose one of our 3 heavily sustained dps glyphs for a simple burst every 30 seconds. Besides if your that worried about "wasting" your fingers of frost proc then go get the ice lance glyph seeing as bosses are a higher level than you, its almost the same concept anyways. Personally I wouldn't bother lol.

    Now, if they made the idea that Dashaus came up with that wouldn't be pretty cool as long as it was part of the core function of the spell anyways. The problem is in pvp if a warrior is bladestorming or a hunter is bestial wrathed it would affect pvp because they can't be stunned when using those spells :/

  6. #6
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Oh, I didn't mean put it on a glyph. =p

    It just works another spell into the cycle...

  7. #7

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    oh gotcha.

    if you have enough crit and spellpower ice lance isn't too bad to use as a place holder whenever you can't use your deep freeze, its not worth glyphing for, but from what my cousin and i have noticed it it helps keep your dps up at a decent rate. esp if your talented for spell impact. I'd say give it a try and see if you like doing that. the only instant cast that really lowers your dps in the frost rotation is fireball when you get brainfreeze. i haven't been able to give it a try with the t10 2 set but i'm hopin that make it worth using finally haha. but i'm thinking in the patch when they make frostfire bolt available to the proc the ending result will be much better. and if fingers of frost is up when you use it, it should work out well since it gets the same crit damage bonus as frost spells. just a few things to consider.

  8. #8
    Epic! Valanna's Avatar
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    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Deep Freeze cannot deal damage in PvP. The tooltip states it deals damage to targets permanently immune to stuns, aka not targets that are immune because of DR or buffs such as bladestorm.
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  9. #9

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX
    How about just adding something like this instead:

    Your Ice Lance criticals against frozen targets increase the damage of your next Deep Freeze against that target by 30%. Stacks to 5.

    Now your Fingers of Frost procs aren't 'wasted' when Deep Freeze is on cooldown, because you buff the next Deep Freeze, but not enough that you'd skip using a Deep Freeze to apply the buff.

    uhh so you don't think that a 100k nuke might have some balance issues?

  10. #10
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Against raid bosses? Not really. ~30k for a DF as is. 150% bonus to it would be only 75k. Each ice lance would add ~9k more damage. So you can consider it as if the ice lances to an extra 9k each on a delayed timer. Due to the current mechanics, you're only likely to get one or two extra ice lance off between deep freezes anyway. If you sacrifice a DF to stack the buff higher, you're losing out on damage in the long run to see bigger numbers.

    In PvP, you might stack the buff to 150%... which would do a whopping ZERO damage. Hooray for no PvP balance changes.

    Anyway, numbers are just pulled out of my buttox. The idea is the buff should be large enough that Ice Lance + bonus to the next Deep Freeze is decently higher than Frostbolt to make it worth the risk of doing an Ice Lance instead of DF when DF is on cooldown.

  11. #11

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    I always thought an addition to Arcitc Winds (as well as a reduction to 3 points instead of 5) that went something like:

    "Your Deep Freeze critical strikes have 33/66/100% chance to reset its cooldown."

    Not sure if you could grossly chain a bunch of Deep Freezes with lucky FoF procs but I don't see any other way it would be OP.

  12. #12

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by DirewolfX
    Against raid bosses? Not really. ~30k for a DF as is. 150% bonus to it would be only 75k. Each ice lance would add ~9k more damage. So you can consider it as if the ice lances to an extra 9k each on a delayed timer. Due to the current mechanics, you're only likely to get one or two extra ice lance off between deep freezes anyway. If you sacrifice a DF to stack the buff higher, you're losing out on damage in the long run to see bigger numbers.

    In PvP, you might stack the buff to 150%... which would do a whopping ZERO damage. Hooray for no PvP balance changes.

    Anyway, numbers are just pulled out of my buttox. The idea is the buff should be large enough that Ice Lance + bonus to the next Deep Freeze is decently higher than Frostbolt to make it worth the risk of doing an Ice Lance instead of DF when DF is on cooldown.

    Sounds like a pretty decent idea to me. The only problem I could see this having is saving stacks for bombing fresh add spawns, but a lot of adds in ICC are stunnable that have low hp and need to be killed quickly. You could do it to bone spikes, but I mean, it's marrowgar, come on. It would be super OP for LK valkyr, but those can be stunned and I doubt the dps requirement on them is high in heroic as it is tiny in regular.

  13. #13
    Warchief DirewolfX's Avatar
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    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Ah, I imagined it as more of a debuff on the target that only affected the casting Frost Mage. I could definitely see it being used for fights where the boss has a vulnerable phase (like XT, but without the switching targets to the heart), now that you mention it. That actually adds an interesting bit of strategy to the class, though, so I don't mind Frost getting a really good burn during a burn phase with some smart planning.

  14. #14

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    i suppose if it was implemented in the talents it wouldn't be a bad idea, but i know someone out there would complain that frost mages have a damage move that hits for 70k+, "op-op-op-nerf" kind of idea, although if you really think about it, the damage would make up for the proc rate of fof when compared to missle barrage in arcane.
    one thing i was thinking about is what happened to the talent change that blizzard was going to to do make it so that ice lance criticals caused frostbolt's next cast to have a 1 sec cast time reduction? i really liked that idea and i think that either one of those would make icelance better when df is on cd.

  15. #15

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Zirra
    i suppose if it was implemented in the talents it wouldn't be a bad idea, but i know someone out there would complain that frost mages have a damage move that hits for 70k+, "op-op-op-nerf" kind of idea, although if you really think about it, the damage would make up for the proc rate of fof when compared to missle barrage in arcane.
    one thing i was thinking about is what happened to the talent change that blizzard was going to to do make it so that ice lance criticals caused frostbolt's next cast to have a 1 sec cast time reduction? i really liked that idea and i think that either one of those would make icelance better when df is on cd.
    Frostbolt cast times would be miles below one second with the change. The pve benefit wasn't super large because of this, and the pvp benefit was ridiculous. With bloodlust I think I was casting 1.3s frostbolts in my 10 man. On a wizard cleave team you could do the same thing. Frostbolt->BF->.3sFrostbolt. Give that a WE nova and you've got 3 spells within 1.3s of one another for well over 20k damage.

  16. #16

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    oh ok, lol my mage isn't all that geared yet cuz i only use him to mess around these days so i didn't even think about it with enough haste to cause the proc to push fb to go under 1 sec >.<

  17. #17

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Frost doesn't NEED the MA glyph by any standards as their crit is increased by 50% on FoF procs. I like the idea on OP, was discussing something similar with a friend recently.

  18. #18

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by masterprtzl
    Frost doesn't NEED the MA glyph by any standards as their crit is increased by 50% on FoF procs. I like the idea on OP, was discussing something similar with a friend recently.
    Glyph of Molten Armor has a pretty low value, so it's pretty easy to replace. However, if you wish to buff frost and also replace that glyph, then it's a bit harder because you end up with a very powerful glyph.

    Cutting the Deep Freeze cooldown to 15 seconds with a glyph would probably make the glyph about equal to the MA glyph. Not much of a buff for frost and a tiny flavor change. I have to wonder if that's worth doing?

  19. #19

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiga
    Glyph of Molten Armor has a pretty low value, so it's pretty easy to replace. However, if you wish to buff frost and also replace that glyph, then it's a bit harder because you end up with a very powerful glyph.

    Cutting the Deep Freeze cooldown to 15 seconds with a glyph would probably make the glyph about equal to the MA glyph. Not much of a buff for frost and a tiny flavor change. I have to wonder if that's worth doing?
    with the next patch MA glyph will be replaced by glyph of FFB (for brain freeze procs)

    i honestly think a good way to buff frost in pve without effecting pvp is to add something like this (going to use empowered frostbolt talent as an example):

    Empowered Frostbolt - Increases the damage of your Frostbolt spell by 5/10% of your spell power and reduces the cast time by 0.1/0.2 sec. In addition, when your Deep Freeze spell deals damage, your next Frostbolt has a 5/10% chance to refresh the cooldown on Deep Freeze.

    of course.... the percentage can be adjusted or they could add a short CD to how often this can proc if it became too powerful in pve
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  20. #20

    Re: Frost glyph suggestion

    Glyph of Frostfire is maybe a 3% increase to FFB, which will still only be under 10% of our total damage done, so the glyph is a 0.3% DPS increase. Molten Armor is still quite a bit better.

    A few months ago (when 3.3 was being worked on), I was pitching the idea of wrapping the lower DF cooldown into the brain freeze talent like this:

    - Each time your brain freeze cast crits, you gain one stack of Cold Capacity, stacking up to 5 times. When your deep freeze does damage, Cold Capacity is consumed and for each stack, the cooldown of deep freeze is reduced by 5 seconds.

    What that does is that you can store up "Cold Capacity" by not using deep freeze and have 5 stacks up for a 25 second cooldown reduction. Then, when the boss fight enters into a burn phase, you have one deep freeze off cooldown already and then another ready 5 seconds later and then another with cold snap right after that.

    It also works in a steady DPS situation where you use deep freeze every time it is available. You are likely to get 1-3 crits on your brain freeze between very deep freeze cast, so the cooldown will drop to about 20 seconds.

    It's a really minor DPS increase, but it adds depth to the game play by allowing the mage to decide on wether to stack up Cold Capacity for higher burst or to just use it all the time.

    It could also be tied to just "each time your brain freeze buff is used" rather than each time the spell crits. I'm trying to add better crit scaling at every possible opportunity though, because that's where frost is currently weakest and needs the most help.

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