Gargoyal and Haste?

[Nangz]

Now ive searched in the EJ thread so linky if ya found it becaus i couldnt.

When you summon your gargoyal it takes a snapshot of your haste. The base cast time is 2 secs so unless im calculating wrong, wouldnt heroism push it down below the invisible gcd cP for his main nuke? Thus making potting and hero just overkill?

I ask this because I am going to get dbw next time it drops and i was thinking about the haste proc and well..... 500 pot haste+600 trinket haste+30% hero haste= way overkill?

The only explanation id think is if the gargoyal goes oom it will melee (i believe it can) faster but id like to learn so more info on this.

Thanks for reading.

[Shiira]

With all of the procs and cooldowns that you mentioned your gargoyle would have a gargoyle strike cast time of 0.98 seconds. So your gargoyle still benefits from the vast majority of your haste but it's hardly "way overkill".

As for mana they don't use that anyway so it isn't an issue.

[Nangz]

With all of the procs and cooldowns that you mentioned your gargoyle would have a gargoyle strike cast time of 0.98 seconds. So your gargoyle still benefits from the vast majority of your haste but it's hardly "way overkill".

As for mana they don't use that anyway so it isn't an issue.

Well it isn't way overkill but because it uses a 1.5 sec gcd i'd assume anything below 1.5 sec cast time is just "overkill" i mean if I can garg 3 times in a fight i'd do it pre pot, fight pot and during hero trying to get DbW up when i pot which would be around a 1.5 sec cast time. I don't think i'd be a huge dps increase but giving garg a "hero" type of thing i'd think would be better.

[Shiira]

Are you sure that the gargoyle has a 1.5 second global cooldown for gargoyle strike?

In that case a speed pot alone would be almost enough to gcd cap it.

Edit: It appears that it does. This may mean that if you are using gargoyle during bloodlust it's better to use strength pots over haste, but I can't be bothered to do the maths on that right now.

[Nangz]

Are you sure that the gargoyle has a 1.5 second global cooldown for gargoyle strike?

In that case a speed pot alone would be almost enough to gcd cap it.

Edit: It appears that it does. This may mean that if you are using gargoyle during bloodlust it's better to use strength pots over haste, but I can't be bothered to do the maths on that right now.

Sorry but strength pots? if you mean the armor pot for AP gain sure but idk what strenght pot you're talking about lol. Bear in mind that if the pot does cap it on its own there are plenty of fights where you can get off 3 gargs (anything longer than 6 mins) so thats a pre pot, hero and combat pot.

I would think that 1100 haste is plenty enough to get the cast time down to 1.5 secs. And coordinating garg a pot and the trinket proc shouldn't be hard as its 1.5 min cd on the trinket and 3 min cd on the garg

[kaelleria]

I'm not sure, but I think the gargoyle's cast is considered a spell and thus the gcd would be lowered. I could be wrong though.

[Nangz]

I'm not sure, but I think the gargoyle's cast is considered a spell and thus the gcd would be lowered. I could be wrong though.

Agreed but gcds can't go below 1.5 secs for casters although it wouldn't suprise me to see if this rule didn't count for gargs.

[kaelleria]

Yes... yes they can. Gcds can get down to 1 second for casters.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_haste

[Shiira]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22828

It probably isn't going to be better than a haste potion ever, but it's worth working it out for sure.

As for the haste you only need about 600 to get the cast down to 1.5 seconds.

I'm not sure, but I think the gargoyle's cast is considered a spell and thus the gcd would be lowered. I could be wrong though.

I thought so too, but after scanning a few logs I can't find examples of gargoyles casting more often that 1.5 seconds apart, so it appears that they do not get a reduced global cooldown.

[Nangz]

http://www.wowhead.com/?item=22828

It probably isn't going to be better than a haste potion ever, but it's worth working it out for sure.

As for the haste you only need about 600 to get the cast down to 1.5 seconds.

I thought so too, but after scanning a few logs I can't find examples of gargoyles casting more often that 1.5 seconds apart, so it appears that they do not get a reduced global cooldown.

I'll see if any EJ posters have mentioned this because its worth investigation. The gargoyle may suffer from the spell queueing that warlocks imps have in the past.

[Shiira]

I don't know anything about imp spell queueing, but there were a fair few examples of a gargoyle starting one cast exactly 1.5 seconds after starting the previous one.

There were also examples of gargoyles not casting until over two seconds after starting the previous cast though, so this could be an issue.

[Malevolence]

I don't know anything about imp spell queueing, but there were a fair few examples of a gargoyle starting one cast exactly 1.5 seconds after starting the previous one.

There were also examples of gargoyles not casting until over two seconds after starting the previous cast though, so this could be an issue.

This is most likely because your gargoyle is meleeing the target instead of casting which is a pretty big dps loss for it. To prevent this turn away from the boss when you cast gargoyle, it spawns it about 8 yards away, and it will never melee as long as its out of the hit box.

[Exclusive]

You can't time DBW. And then still its only 33% chance to get the haste buff. So I wouldn't even think about it.

There is only 1 way to combine all of those, and that's when you can ask for Heroism and actually get it. But that's retarded as a lot of fights benefit more when heroism is used at a certain point in the fight and not just when somebody has a random trinket proc.

[Gilgemesh]

more gargoyle pops> less gargoyle pops, one with hero.

[Gulo]

Agreed, Gilgamesh
I pop my gargoyle say, 10 seconds into the fight, when all procs are up and usually end up with at least one more by the end of the fight, of course depending on the fight.

[Arisen]

Was wondering the same thing myself

As i recently rerolled engineering i had a rather fortunate run of procs on rotface 25 at the pull, whereby i prepotted a haste pot, DBW haste proc popped and then my engineer gloves were activated just as i summoned the gargoyle.

I checked the log and it did spike me up to 15-16k DPS just after the pull but i still cant see much of a noticable difference in garg damage.

[kaelleria]

I'll run some tests over the weekend. I think I can grab a shammy or 2 to help in the name of DK science.

[kaelleria]

Ok after a bit of testing with a shammy friend here is what I found:

The gargoyle is not limited by any GCD. There is a slight delay, but it is not caused be the gcd. My guess is the gargoyle AI is coded in a way where it doesn't send the command to start the next cast until it recieves a signal back saying the previous cast is complete or the spell queue is not enabled for pets. This delay is approximately .05 seconds regardless of haste.

That being said, it is possible to get your gargolye down to a sub 1 second cast using trinkets, hero and pots. I myself have very little haste gear and was still able to bring the cast time down to ~.92 seconds.

Being in unholy presence as the gargoyle is summoned shaves .3 seconds off the gargoyle's cast time. This stacks with other haste auras. I tested with non-specced windfury, and believe it would also stack with swift retribution ect...

Note that Wrath of air totem does not effect the gargoyle at all.

Also note that heroism cast while the gargoyle is summoned will do nothing for the gargoyle's casting speed.

[Shiira]

That's nice but what you have investigated is not what was being discussed. It doesn't matter if your gargoyle has a 0.92 second cast time if it still has a 1.5 second global cooldown. Can you provide any logs of a gargoyle starting one cast less than 1.5 seconds after the previous one started?

[kaelleria]

Why yes, yes I can.

2/27 17:07:05.562 SPELL_CAST_START,0xF130006CB50F3217,"Ebon Gargoyle",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,51963,"Gargoyle Strike",0x8

2/27 17:07:05.562 SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF130006CB50F3217,"Ebon Gargoyle",0x12111,0xF1300079A8001888,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0xa28,51963,"Gargoyle Strike",0x8,2630,2629,8,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil


2/27 17:07:06.667 SPELL_CAST_START,0xF130006CB50F3217,"Ebon Gargoyle",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,51963,"Gargoyle Strike",0x8

2/27 17:07:06.667 SPELL_DAMAGE,0xF130006CB50F3217,"Ebon Gargoyle",0x12111,0xF1300079A8001888,"Grandmaster's Training Dummy",0xa28,51963,"Gargoyle Strike",0x8,2626,2625,8,0,0,0,nil,nil,nil

2/27 17:07:07.963 SPELL_CAST_START,0xF130006CB50F3217,"Ebon Gargoyle",0x12111,0x0000000000000000,nil,0x80000000,51963,"Gargoyle Strike",0x8

Each of the casts starts 1.1-1.2 seconds after the other. This portion of the log was taken using gear with 334 haste, a haste pot, blood pres and heroism.

If you really want it, I can post the entire log. Also, I'm more than willing to run through the tests again, especially if you have a better method of parsing the combat logs.