How to rate prot paladin?

[Rayzan]

Hmmmm well

Healers alive?
Dps not pulling aggro?
Tank has the boss where he needs to be?
Is he picking up all the adds?
Are the fights running smoothly?

If all you're answers are yes then I wouldn't worry about it. Gear is very important for a MT but if he's doing his job then he's fine, even if he's slacking in gear a bit. Personally I believe brewfest trinkets are only good for beginner tanks trying to get a good amont of hp. Especially in ICC where avoidance is key, there are definately much better trinkets to chose from. Also, given the fact they only give stam and a uselss "use" button, he must be fine defense wise so he has even more trinkets to chose from.

All in all if your not wiping or feel like you're picking up slack then it wouldn't be a big deal in my eyes. Make them healers work a little harder. It won't kill them.

EDIT: typo

[thrizie]

Especially in ICC where avoidance is key

Avoidance sucks more in ICC than anywhere else in WotLK.

And it is prety poor everywhere else.

[enbee]

tell him to get the stam trinket from 5man toc + the armour trinket off 245 badges ASAP, there I fixed it.

Also pally tanking "dps" should hardly matter if his threat is fine. Though 2t10 and a propper weapon provides a very nice boost to that.

[enbee]

thats why you should never pop wings. you never know when shit may hit the fan and your gonna need your bubble.

The only time I don't pop wings is when AD is on cooldown, or sindragosa p3.

Don't be silly!

Also click off RF and pop wings on 9 stacks on festergut when the other tank took over for loldps!

[InbredPsychosis]

Never popping wings is a good sign of a bad tank. Like it has been stated, there is a time and place to use it, but that means it's still to be used. It's excellent for buffing your threat, especially on big pulls where your wimpy consecrate needs help putting more threat on targets when the AOE is high. Plus, a DPS boost is a DPS boost.

As a tank, I usually rate any other tank by the amount of threat they do. Unfortunately on my server, I am often disappointed. Several nightmares. I have a good prot paladin I tank with now though that I have trouble pulling off of, which makes me happy.

If he is taking too much damage, he should snag some more armor. Badge belt, badge gloves, badge chest and their tier equivalents are a good place to get it, as well as the beefy cloak. Pillars of Might are also good, as well as armor enchants. Don't worry about avoidance, you get plenty on your gear. Stam and armor will keep you alive.

[Needonboots]

Yeeeeeeeeeah Salvation is purely PvP. Good tanks never glyph for it unless absolutely necessary for an encounter they're currently on that they want to down RIGHT NOW. Glyphs for a pally tank are Vengeance, Divine Plea, and Righteous Defense/Spiritual Attunement/Hammer of the Righteous/sometimes Judgement/rarely Avenger's Shield.

First off, Salvation gives you another cooldown. Why not glyph for it? If you're not having threat issues, regularly have enough threat lead, and are doing difficult content where you get hit hard (Festergut as an example), then it is better than several alternatives.

Spiritual Attunement as a glyph is the most retarded idea I've seen here in a long time. Hammer of the Righteous is only any use if you're running heroics or pulling Marrowgar's trash, and does absolutely nothing the times it matters. Judgement glyph isn't the worst in the world, but assuming Judgement does roughly 10% of your overall damage (pulling a number out of my arse there), you gain a grand total of +1% damage done. You're a tank, it won't be relevent. Avenger's Shield is *fine*, but requires you to sub into your rotation for the smallest of threat boosts. I'd much rather have the utility of hitting multiple targets with it, even within a raid environment.

[balloonknot]

Glyph of Righteous Defense is third best until over hit cap.

I'd take glyph of salvation over it on every fight except HM Saurfang.

You already have 2 taunts and can HoP the the tank if your second on threat, which will never miss

[syvas]

He should never pop wings

WRONG!

[Aliceinhell]

Glyph of Salvation IS a worthy cooldown on fights that hit like a mactruck, OR fights where you continue taking damage even after -the -other- tank has taunted. Situational, so it really does depend on content, and wether or not the tank has poor threat generating capabilities (Though even that cant be solved with MD's and similar).

HOTR glyph - I hate seeing this one with a passion on other Pallytanks. Seriously, speccing this is like saying "Hi I just wanna tank trash in heroic's cuz I'm uber bad and can't hold threat of one extra mob without it. Zomg, what happens if I go to tank 5 or more mobs and my Glyphed HOTR only hits 4?!?! " /wrists.

And as for Wings? The other guys are right - best place for that is the pull. Burn wings running in followed by Avengers shield / judgements etc so you can compete with the retarded ranged DPS that didnt wait for you to get into position before attacking. If you die in the first 30 seconds from not being able to semi-bubble? Get new healers.

[walexia]

first off, is his

1.spec okay?
2.Gear and glyphs and gemming okay? defense cap etc
3.use off tanking abilites okay? (letting holy shiled fall off) and good use of life saving cd's


if all 3 above are answered then you can get a good idea of how good or bad your tank is.
Information about prot pallies is in the sticky of "Paladin Helpful topics " at the top of this forum.

[Darthwader]

nowadays people tends to rate tanks based on hp.... is so sad for all of us....

but imo i can define if a tank is good or not by the positioning.

[Creos Malkor]

I read this thread and I actually have a question. Did something change about Hand of Reckoning? Everyone talks about hit, but last I checked, Hand of Reck is a spell and falls under the Spell Hit Table, requiring 17% increased chance to never miss. Am I missing something or isn't 263 hit rating like 11% spell hit. Glyph of Righteous Defense seems pretty important especially in fights like Marro, Saur and Deathwhisper where a missed taunt can spell disaster.

[Evilution]

I read this thread and I actually have a question. Did something change about Hand of Reckoning? Everyone talks about hit, but last I checked, Hand of Reck is a spell and falls under the Spell Hit Table, requiring 17% increased chance to never miss. Am I missing something or isn't 263 hit rating like 11% spell hit. Glyph of Righteous Defense seems pretty important especially in fights like Marro, Saur and Deathwhisper where a missed taunt can spell disaster.

Don´t need to bother with the taunt-glyph if you play your spells right, that is unless you have close to 0 hitrating.
When i take over tanking i´ve gotten used to just spamming both taunts to make sure i get the boss...
I got Hand of Reckoning set to thumb-button on the mouse, and
Righteous Defense is shift+same button, using both goes in a flash.

In that odd occurance both taunts miss (i got 148 hit-rating and i´m a draenei so 1% extra
hit there), HoP the other tank (ofc not if the OT is a pala, but using 2 pala-tanks is
just bad mojo, warrior-tank for auto-sunder is preferred) and make sure you´re second
on threat (never an issue if you´re the one pulling, there is rarely any reason to not pop wings
once you have the boss on you in the pull) so a HoP on the tank won´t force
to boss to go something like.... "RAWRRRR, SAURFANG SMASH PUNY MELEE-DPS!!!"

[enbee]

HOTR glyph - I hate seeing this one with a passion on other Pallytanks. Seriously, speccing this is like saying "Hi I just wanna tank trash in heroic's cuz I'm uber bad and can't hold threat of one extra mob without it. Zomg, what happens if I go to tank 5 or more mobs and my Glyphed HOTR only hits 4?!?! " /wrists.

I glyphed hotr when I was tanking 4 adds on anub heroic.

It's a decent glyph, and I kept it since I had 40 expertise at the time, swapping it back out now though, since I'm slightly under dodge cap.
Your comments about the glyph make me think you have tanking confidence issues, or had a traumatic experience where you were stuck being the trashtank... There there?

[Needonboots]

I glyphed hotr when I was tanking 4 adds on anub heroic.

It's a decent glyph, and I kept it since I had 40 expertise at the time, swapping it back out now though, since I'm slightly under dodge cap.
Your comments about the glyph make me think you have tanking confidence issues, or had a traumatic experience where you were stuck being the trashtank... There there?

My entire spec/glyphs was different for solotanking Anub's 4 adds. That's not relevent.

[enbee]

My entire spec/glyphs was different for solotanking Anub's 4 adds. That's not relevent.

I was just giving an example of how the glyph is also usefull on some bosses.

Also you've not killed anub heroic25...

[Bluerelic]

And as for Wings? The other guys are right - best place for that is the pull. Burn wings running in followed by Avengers shield / judgements etc so you can compete with the retarded ranged DPS that didnt wait for you to get into position before attacking. If you die in the first 30 seconds from not being able to semi-bubble? Get new healers.

This bothers me, it really really bothers me when i see pallies do this, wasting half the potency of your threat increasing cd is counter productive at best, you should be pulling with HoR for its damage and taunt, at the exact same time you cast avenger's shield, you get ~6-10k damage into the mob before you ever set foot in melee, set the pace with judgement, and work your rotation, dont pop AW until you're ready to hit your 2nd shield slam, your SoV is now 5 stacked and and you should be able to get 3 each of your ShoR and HotR in before the end of your wings, giving the absolute best threat gain possible from your AW, by only waiting ~5-7 seconds. Not to mention your raid can get up their appropriate debuffs, sunders, misery, etc.

[enbee]

This bothers me, it really really bothers me when i see pallies do this, wasting half the potency of your threat increasing cd is counter productive at best, you should be pulling with HoR for its damage and taunt, at the exact same time you cast avenger's shield, you get ~6-10k damage into the mob before you ever set foot in melee, set the pace with judgement, and work your rotation, dont pop AW until you're ready to hit your 2nd shield slam, your SoV is now 5 stacked and and you should be able to get 3 each of your ShoR and HotR in before the end of your wings, giving the absolute best threat gain possible from your AW, by only waiting ~5-7 seconds. Not to mention your raid can get up their appropriate debuffs, sunders, misery, etc.

It's not about the best possible effect for overall threat, it's to get a good boost for early threat to counteract bad parries/misses + dps getting early crit sprees.

I personally always open with AW + Exo + HoR(same time as exo) + AS + normal rotation.