Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

[Slurpygoo]

Priests suck. True story.

[Ultima]

Some nice posts here, some terrible posts here.

One thing which did catch my eye was saying: "Looking like a mage if I pick the wrong gear.". I hope I'm readng this incorrectly, but for picking the Chest and Glove badge pieces which are Mage tier look-a-likes, I am picking the wrong pieces? As a Disc main spec and Holy off-spec, this is perplexing.

To throw me back into the whirlwind of Holy Crit -vs Haste, Haste lowers the GCD = more healers. Crit becomes useless after a certain percentage and to a point where some only have 1 point in 'Surge of Light'. I'd prefer Spirit and Haste gear as Holy, not exclusively stack, that's not really possible but if I had to pick on a fair share of pieces, that would be my option. Now the Priest T10 is 3/5 Crit and 2/5 Haste, the Legs and Gloves are Haste (VoA, come on, you know you want to drop it) and for the time being I'm using the badge gloves and Festergut10 legs (Woven Death-mini). I feel no immediate need to get the "healing" tier set due to the clunky and/or poor bonuses.

I feel hard done by for having such tier bonuses, while Shamans get such a funky-nice one and our friend Shadow getting another which effectively dumbs their rotation throughout the fight, but is class changing nonetheless.

Also, we can't be a "Druid-lite" and "Paladin-lite" at the same time, correct me if I'm wrong, but we can't spec into both 'Improved Renew'+'Empowered Renew' (with glyph) and 'Empowered Healing' (with glyph). Is it not a case of one of the other with the ability to perform the other at a lesser level. E.g Strong Renew raid healing with weak(er) Flash Heals. // Strong(er) Flash Heals with weak(er) Renews which do not instant cast heal etc.

[magicism]

easy on the nerdrage

Tis what I do
Also I had one of my dogs put down about 20 minutes ago. Just thought I would throw that in there.

And Ultima thank you for expanding on my earlier point. I would assume everyone knows what I do in here by now and it is good to have someone high up agree with me, makes me look good ;]

Oh wait, a challenger appears

You misunderstood what he said is why. He's saying he dislikes that a lot of priest gear looks like mage gear, not that you're gearing wrong by taking spirit/haste gear.

What? No? He said he dislikes priests picking up Spirit and Haste gear that he thinks are itemized for Mages.
You can tell this due to the parts in the sentense that say

Looking like a mage

and

if I pick the wrong gear.

And then reduce the amount of gear dropping that has spirit on it in order to balance loot tables. As it is now we have more items to choose from, because there are fewer dps only items out there.

How does this work? We don't have a wider range of stuff to chose from? They just made it so that mages and warlocks now want the same gear as us? The same amount of items drop from each boss. You are wrong, Mages and Warlocks have more choice in gear, because they don't HAVE to take the spirit gear. There is plenty of gear that doesn't have spirit on that drops only for cloth dps classes and disc. But as a Holy Priest I frown upon taking any gear that doesn't have spirit on it out of principle.

That's what he's saying. He's not saying 'priests are retards so they stare at grid all the time' he's saying 'priests are more inclined to be grid watching on account of their spec's playstyle, which may account for lower situational awareness'

In all honesty I don’t die a lot, but I see Spirits of Redemption constantly. I guess as a sweeping generalization, priests have the stare-at-Grid syndrome worse than other healers.

Key words and phrases here, "In all honesty I don’t die a lot" would be one of them, this implying that he is doing it better than everyone else as well as "sweeping generalization" which might, just might imply that he means the players. If he ment the play style of the class he wouldn't have compared it with his own experiences cose then it would look like he is doing it wrong and he would have said so. He likes the phrase play style, it makes him feel like he knows what he is talking about.

And if Obama said 'We are involved in discussion with our enemies in an attempt to resolve conflict' someone like you would say 'Obviously this means he's having anal sex with Hitler's dead corpse'.

Again, no? Everyone is coming to reasonable conclusions after reading what he said. You just said something you couldn't possibly gain from that sentense. I don't think anything I have said has been wrong so far.

[Zeuq]

Also, we can't be a "Druid-lite" and "Paladin-lite" at the same time, correct me if I'm wrong, but we can't spec into both 'Improved Renew'+'Empowered Renew' (with glyph) and 'Empowered Healing' (with glyph). Is it not a case of one of the other with the ability to perform the other at a lesser level. E.g Strong Renew raid healing with weak(er) Flash Heals. // Strong(er) Flash Heals with weak(er) Renews which do not instant cast heal etc.

If you pass on B&S, you can get at least 3-4 points in Empowered Healing and full Renew talents at the same time; you probably can't get both glyphs unless you pass on GS or CoH glyphs. Of course, it's all a trade-off if utility, but one could potentially fit that description if one were so inclined.

Either way, I wouldn't agree with that because I think trying to spec as Paladin-lite or Druid-lite utterly defeats the purpose of the class because if you want to heal like a Paladin or like a Druid, you might as well just reroll.

[Danner]

Aren't both of these situations mitigated by Guardian Spirit? On Sindragosa, if the Pally gets iceblocked, GS should easily make up the difference in healing on the tank, at least long enough to break him out. And on Valithria, GS is up roughly a quarter of the time that the portal healers are spamming on her so, sure, I won't keep up with a Pally, but if you adjust healing for GS, it ought to make up for that. A Holy Priest can also handle healing the raid outside the portal just fine.

GS only works on one target. On sindragosa, the tank takes sick damage when the tanking debuffs start to stack. GS the tank will definitively help. But It won't save the tank alone. GS + Fheal spam will struggle to keep the tank alive. And it only for 10 seconds. Iceblocks tend to last a lot longer.

Then there is the next iceblock target. He will take some 18k damage and desperately need to be at full health before the iceblock hits. Even if you handle the MT, but if your iceblock target is low, then ... it's game over. It's just damned hard to replace a paladin. This holds true for absolutely all classes; it's not just a priest problem. It's just that when you need that iceblock target on full HP 2 seconds ago, the paladin can throw a HL, the druid and shaman can throw a Nature Swiftness Big Heal (tm).... and the priest can watch him die.

As far as valthira; yes - priests can heal outside. But you know, it's a fight where you replace healers with more paladins. Who is the first to go?

ObWhine: They nerfed GS on Valthira BTW. One minute Weakened Spirit debuff on the boss. But hey, that's not really a problem.

[antifreeze]

I remember all i saw in TBC in black temple was spirits of redemption, so got feeling that priest is just very weak at taking raid damage and blizz did that on purpose giving a spirit healers. Now situation is about same, was about same till i read this.

So if they gave spirit, u suck if u are at that form? Isnt it still better than be dead on the floor ? )

[Ultima]

@antifreeze : It's just a gimmick, I think it's left there because it's not over-powered. Go go 5% spirit.

[heeroyuy99]

i am not saying that all priests are bads, but i do see a lot of spirits of redemption in raid, especially on putricide.

[Alaska]

No. What he is implying is the priest class is the class that needs to keep most focused on grid rather than the actual screen.

Probably implying that priests have more abilities such as shielding, hotting, dispelling that is easier done on grid than most other classes.

I don't see anything about him commenting on players, just the class. Don't forget that you are a human being, and you are not the character you play

Yes, I think what he was getting at was there are more abilities other than healing priest can do. If you counted all the shields and procs I do in a raid I'd be the top of the healing/support meter.

[Dvotar]

i am not saying that all priests are bads, but i do see a lot of spirits of redemption in raid, especially on putricide.

Just seeing spirit of redemption in raid alot doesnt say about priests in general.
If you see spirit of redemption alot then they don't know the tactics of the fight... maybe try to dodge malleable goo?

[Zeuq]

The whole Spirit of Redemption everywhere thing is a simple case of confirmation bias. You notice every single time that one pops up, but if one doesn't, it kind of goes unnoticed. With the exception of tanks, which only goes by virtue of it generally being a wipe, no one literally advertises their death. In fact, I remember in a previous guild that I was thought of as dying a lot, despite consistently being in the middle or bottom of the death count; however, every time I did die, people would see my Spirit form and comment that I was always dying. And yet, the mage who consistently over-aggroed or warlock that couldn't move out of fires or the rogue who didn't zoom out and got killed by all the easily avoidable melee damage seldom got called out simply because their deaths weren't as obvious.



@ Danner

To be fair, I haven't done Sindragosa on 10-man, only in 25-man, and even when both Paladins have been ice blocked, I never really felt like the tank was in enough danger than GS along with the quick thinking of another healer or two wasn't plenty to keep them alive long enough to break out someone which, at least for us, wasn't longer than the GS CD.

For Valithria, I've done both in and out of the portals. Yes, if I'm doing portals, I fall behind the Paladins, but them hitting 100k HLs faster than I hit 80-90k GHs, but like I said, GS is up ~25% of the time, and since it's a 40% buff, or roughly averaging to 10% more healing on the dragon, when you take away that from the Paladins and whoever else went in the portal, the first Holy Priest probably brings more total healing than trading a Paladin, especially an off-spec one. Of course, that said, an ideal situation you'd still probably better off sending 4-5 Paladins in the portals and having the Holy Priest stay out with someone else to heal, but if we're talking about min-maxing that fight, I'd still try to find a way to keep a Holy Priest in there somehow.

[jifjosh]

Noone even bothers with Greater Heal cause it takes half a year to get it off.

Serendipity. If you can't monitor your stacks to know when a Gheal is viable should the tank/raidmember take a sizable hit (i.e. 10k plus, my FH's crit for 10, gheal is guaranteed 13k+) then delete your character.

[Ndogg]

Serendipity. If you can't monitor your stacks to know when a Gheal is viable should the tank/raidmember take a sizable hit (i.e. 10k plus, my FH's crit for 10, gheal is guaranteed 13k+) then delete your character.

That was said in the context of it being our biggest HPM nuke and how its not even worth casting compared to other healer class nukes. Paladin's laugh at your Serendipty.

[jifjosh]

That was said in the context of it being our biggest HPM nuke and how its not even worth casting compared to other healer class nukes. Paladin's laugh at your Serendipty.

I really don't get what you are bitching about. It's gheal is crap without Serendipity, but in the course of raid healing it takes very little time to stack it up, and when stacked my gheal is like 1.3secs? (I don't remember the exact decimals) thus making its HPS worth it.

Paladin's either are bombers or they never use their nuke ever, HT lololol, HW, shaman use that?

[heeroyuy99]

The whole Spirit of Redemption everywhere thing is a simple case of confirmation bias. You notice every single time that one pops up, but if one doesn't, it kind of goes unnoticed

it may be more noticable, but on a fight where it matters, when someone dies, we know about it. fights like putricide where all the dps has to be alive in p3 to get him down.

[Adelycia]

I personally think that healing priests (both disc and holy) could use some work...In terms of "fun" to play, well I love my priest. We might be low on blizz's priority right now but it will all get worked out in the end. Hopefully! I have healed with a druid up to and including TOC, and tbh that healing style isn't for everyone. Sure they are overpowered but I didn't "enjoy" myself on that toon. I don't have a pally, but I do have a shaman that has also healed (for 2 years with her). The shaman is really powerful, but again I didn't enjoy pushing 1 button all the time. Granted WotLK change that 1 button to a 3 button healing "rotation" but it was still boring. At least on my priest (underwhelming or not) I get to have a lot more choice about what I do and when.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I really think that priests (having 2 out of 3 specs being healing specs) need some work and should be "better" healers. Disc needs more through put and Holy should be stronger raid healers. We aren't druids who can be 4 different roles, we aren't pallies that can be 3 different roles, and we aren't shaman that can also be 3 different roles in a raid. Priests have 2 specs to chose from overall, Healing, Healing or DPS.

In other words, please buff priests to be able to have the output and throughput that other healers have.

[supa]

Don't take this the wrong way, because I really think that priests (having 2 out of 3 specs being healing specs) need some work and should be "better" healers. Disc needs more through put and Holy should be stronger raid healers. We aren't druids who can be 4 different roles, we aren't pallies that can be 3 different roles, and we aren't shaman that can also be 3 different roles in a raid. Priests have 2 specs to chose from overall, Healing, Healing or DPS.

In other words, please buff priests to be able to have the output and throughput that other healers have.

Yea, in the same way rogues and mages should be first in dps, priests should be at least competetive in hps. Yes, hps is not important, but the more healing you do, the greater the chances are that your raid is alive. Priests are utility healers, making them awesome secondary healers in 25 mans and 'eh' to bad in 10 mans.

[kumduh]

I personally love Lightwell, and am surprised most priests don't get it. If there's one down next to the boss, most melee I know are smart enough to click it for free heals.

[AppleDapples]

Did Ghostcrawler just call priests a class played by bad players?
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...No=7&sid=1#122

To be honest, his answers in that thread surprised me and not in a good way... He also says somewhere that he plays resto druid alot, and that raid healing as Holy is supposed to be: CoH and PoM on cooldown, spam renew, period!

I think what he's pointing out is the sheer number of instant spells priests can have to cast at times; or even just remarkably short cast times. Shamans and Paladins can sometimes have slightly longer cast times (Chain Heal & Holy Light, respectively) to roll while they look away from their Grid and check their feet. If a priest is sticking with CoH, PoM, Penance and FH; they're not gonna look away from their Grid quite as often (I know sometimes I don't). I don't think he's calling priests "Bad," I think that's you perceiving his words in the wrong way so you can complain about him; but there is something about priests and movement.

And we all know Druids just run circles while spamming whatever it is they do (incoming people that take this comment too damn seriously).

[Elysia]

There is one thing Holy priests seem to have over Droods and that is fight mobility. Since a lot of our spells are insta-cast, we can run-and-gun better than most. But, I've never rolled a drood healer so I might be talking out of my bottom orifice.

As an fyi, you're talking out of your "bottom orifice." We're not only tied with you on mobility, but can easily surpass you. If some one for whatever reason takes a chunk of damage while we're working on repositioning, we have swiftmend to fall back on. And if the damage is a huge chunk, we have nature's swiftness + healing touch.

Anywho, back to the GC bashing.