My Beef with Nerves of Cold Steel

[Sheriden]

Death Knight, 3 Ranks
Nerves of Cold Steel Rank 1
Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon
Increases your chance to hit with one-handed melee weapons by 1% and increases the damage done by your offhand weapon by 5%.

Paladin, 3 Ranks
One-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 1
Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon
Increases all damage you deal when a one-handed melee weapon is equipped by 4%.

Warrior, 5 Ranks
One-Handed Weapon Specialization Rank 1
Requires One-Handed Melee Weapon
Increases physical damage you deal when a one-handed melee weapon is equipped by 2%.

Ok, I see these 3 talents to be quite similar albeit different in what they do. Dual Wield Death Knights need quite a bit of hit and in at least the case of the Tanking DW Dk thats somewhat of a dream then a reality. I dont know about you but i dont have the points to get Virulence (+3% spell hit) im squeakin by with 8% hit. That means on a raid boss at least by myself im 9% off spell hit cap (6% with a friendly boomkin / s priest).

Now, my beef with Nerves of Cold Steel... why is it only Melee hit? why not both? Icy Touch, Howling Blast, and even DnD are considered Spells and therefore are governed by Spell hit...

I'm not argueing that we should not have to deal with hit as a tank... thats how the game works right now a balance between hit, exp, and stam. but it should be something less then 6-9%!! its embarrasing to have an Icy Touch miss once or twice on a boss (at pull)

All i ask is that the talent change from 3% melee hit to 3% hit while 1h weapon is equipped similar to how the other 2 talents are worded.

[Thyce]

I'm not even a Death Knight (Tankadin ftw!), and I support this message.

[SolaronTich]

Yeah, I know that tanks are a completely different story as far as gearing for hit is concerned, but enhancement shamans are in a similar boat. DW Spec provides 6% melee-only hit, thus they need to gear for the full 17% hit. Again though, tanks aren't really swimming in hit gear.

[failrogue]

Hmm, when i was frost tanking/dps on my deathknight i always got the short end of the gear stick, so i had hit gear coming out my eyeballs, but now that ICC gear has lacking hit, (as far as i've paid attention, if it ain't leather, my rogue can't use it, i go afk for lewts). The stacking 3% general hit would be nice too. Since missing with Icy touch etc, is annoying.

[Sheriden]

I just think its kinda odd that they considered the more "icing" part of the talent (aka the damage on off hand) for a buff yet the hit part remains the same and altogether not useful.

Also, even though our Taunt "Dark Command" is on the list for melee hit (aka 8% is needed) this talent does not affect it. sigh.

[Shiira]

It would be nice to have the hit on nerves of cold steel turned into something more useful, especially considering that frost is probably going to want to hit the spell hit cap in 3.3.3 anyway.

Maybe it will be sorted out during the general talent revamp coming in cataclysm, I can't really imagine blizzard going after such a minor issue now.

[Sheriden]

It would be nice to have the hit on nerves of cold steel turned into something more useful, especially considering that frost is probably going to want to hit the spell hit cap in 3.3.3 anyway.

Maybe it will be sorted out during the general talent revamp coming in cataclysm, I can't really imagine blizzard going after such a minor issue now.

Im just saying changing the "nice to have" part of the talent but keeping the "reason we get this talent" part to something actually useful would've been nice

[Shiira]

I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm saying it would be a nice change but don't expect it any time soon.

[Shelly]

You're making an apples to oranges comparison.

Nerves of CS for where it's at in the talent tree is amazingly overbudget when compared to warriors who need to pick up 2 talents (DW spec for 25% more off-hand damage & precision for 3% more hit, 8 points total) for the same benefit.

Rogues also need 2 talents (DW spec for up to 50% more off-hand damage and precision for 5% hit, 10 points total) for a slightly better benefit.

Then we have shaman who need to spend 3 points in weapon mastery for 10% more damage to both weapons, 3 points in DW spec for 6% hit and the closest thing they get to a dps boost for their OH is Lava Lash which only does 100% (125% if with flametongue) weapon damage with the Off-Hand.

Nerves of Cold Steel is one hell of a talent and far and pretty incredible for 3 points so far down the DK tree.

[Sheriden]

You're making an apples to oranges comparison.

Nerves of CS for where it's at in the talent tree is amazingly overbudget when compared to warriors who need to pick up 2 talents (DW spec for 25% more off-hand damage & precision for 3% more hit, 8 points total) for the same benefit.

Rogues also need 2 talents (DW spec for up to 50% more off-hand damage and precision for 5% hit, 10 points total) for a slightly better benefit.

Then we have shaman who need to spend 3 points in weapon mastery for 10% more damage to both weapons, 3 points in DW spec for 6% hit and the closest thing they get to a dps boost for their OH is Lava Lash which only does 100% (125% if with flametongue) weapon damage with the Off-Hand.

Nerves of Cold Steel is one hell of a talent and far and pretty incredible for 3 points so far down the DK tree.

Slightly Better? well, considering there really isnt any Rogue build that doesnt have these 2 talents i'd refute that.

Yes 10 Points that every rogue will get regardless. But that gives 50% off hand damage, and 5% Melee and Poison hit (which is considered a spell) useful? you bet!

If your going to consider that then you should consider NoCS sister talent Virulence which gives +3% spell hit (again, most tank specs dont have the talents to get said hit) so in actuality it would take 6 Talent points to get a similar effect as a rogue has 3% all hit, 15% off hand (25% in the patch)

I'm not saying i know but at least the wording on the shaman hit talent seems like it would work with spells.

Dual Wield Specialization Rank 1
Increases your chance to hit while dual wielding by an additional 2%.

Lava Lash is indeed their off hand damage however as far as i've seen it does quite a lot of damage. at least in a heroic setting it did the same damage as Storm Strike on a very well geared shaman.

All i know is i need 17% hit for 3 of my main damaging attacks and i only have 8%.

[Sheriden]

I dont quite understand "talent budgets" but if you mean theres too much goin on for its cost then take off the melee hit component, have it only be 25% off hand damage and put the 3% all hit deeper like in Threat of Thassarian.

Regardless both are a DW only talent

Yes i know hit and spell hit is different, im not logged in but ok i've got like 9-10% spell hit. thats still 7% off cap or 4% with outside help.

[mudpies]

We have virulence and nerves and cold steel, that gives us offhand damage, spell hit, and melee hit, rogues and warriors only get damage and hit, no spell hit for the same amount of talents, and i believe paladins don't even get hit rating from a talent. Its a great talent as it is.

[Astray]

Melee Shamans get 6% melee hit and go and gem for spellhit.

I dont think they forgot spells. I think they still want people to gem and gear for spellhit. Shamans for example are forced to spellhit because it is needed for their damage and as a side effect it increases the amount of MW proccs by increasing DW hit.

Deathknights also have a ppm mechanic that is affected if players get a lot of hit while DWing so i guess its the same logic behind.

[mhp]

The talent is fine, really. It makes you choose your gear wisely, if you want to maintain (close to) spell hit%. However, just like it is with other classes and specs, being hit capped as a tank is not mandatory at all. It's a choice you make, and there's plenty of tanks out there way below the hit cap, and they do just fine.

A few misses don't really matter. On the pull, you'll have MD and/or tricks, later on, you'll have a threat lead. And for taunts, we have the glyph if necessary, and we have two taunts to begin with. The chances of both missing are so low that it virtually doesn't exist.

[Sheriden]

The talent is fine, really. It makes you choose your gear wisely, if you want to maintain (close to) spell hit%. However, just like it is with other classes and specs, being hit capped as a tank is not mandatory at all. It's a choice you make, and there's plenty of tanks out there way below the hit cap, and they do just fine.

A few misses don't really matter. On the pull, you'll have MD and/or tricks, later on, you'll have a threat lead. And for taunts, we have the glyph if necessary, and we have two taunts to begin with. The chances of both missing are so low that it virtually doesn't exist.

Then why merge hit in the first place? it might not be mandatory but considering how a dk tank works is much like a rogue. CDs and Rotation. If you mess that up with a miss or parry/dodge your not doing your job properly. I for one dont like relying on outside help for my threat as it may or may not be there in time. the 3 other tank classes only need 8% (if that) hit pallies lost their hit because Blizzard converted all their spells to melee attacks (with the exception of Consecrate i believe). Why MUST it be melee hit alone? its already not something a 2h class would take. How bout make it mutually exclusive with Virulence (aka if you have one the other is voided)

All im saying is the reason people get the talent is for the hit, the off hand damage is a nice bonus

[Shiira]

If the will of the necropolis change goes live you should be tanking as blood after 3.3.3 anyway so what tanks think about nerves of cold steel probably won't ever matter again.

[Xandrellas]

It's been discussed almost to death that WotN change does not make or break a transition between specs.

[Sheriden]

I dont really care about the "hottest" or "best" spec. i DW Frost because thats what i like

[Shiira]

It's been discussed almost to death that WotN change does not make or break a transition between specs.

Not for easy content, but in any situation where tank survivability is an issue the effective health increase from will of the necropolis is completely beyond any of the tools that the other specs have to offer.

I dont really care about the "hottest" or "best" spec. i DW Frost because thats what i like

That's fine, good for you. It kind of invalidates your point about sub optimal talents when you are already playing a spec that you know is sub optimal though. I agree that having one talent that only gives melee hit and another that only gives spell hit doesn't really make sense, I just don't agree with your reasoning behind it.

[Shelly]

Then why merge hit in the first place? it might not be mandatory but considering how a dk tank works is much like a rogue. CDs and Rotation. If you mess that up with a miss or parry/dodge your not doing your job properly. I for one dont like relying on outside help for my threat as it may or may not be there in time. the 3 other tank classes only need 8% (if that) hit pallies lost their hit because Blizzard converted all their spells to melee attacks (with the exception of Consecrate i believe). Why MUST it be melee hit alone? its already not something a 2h class would take. How bout make it mutually exclusive with Virulence (aka if you have one the other is voided)

All im saying is the reason people get the talent is for the hit, the off hand damage is a nice bonus

1. Even at 8% hit I don't think I've ever seen more than 1 or two resists of spells against a boss.

2. The off-hand damage actually provides a lot more threat to you than 3% more spellhit would if you have threat of thaussarian. If you haven't noticed when you do something like Ob and have ToT the off-hand damage portion is reduced to your off-hand damage %.

Really you're making a mountain out of a molehill.