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  1. #1

    Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Did Ghostcrawler just call priests a class played by bad players?

    What I don’t like: Using CoH so much. Dealing with Weakened Soul (esp. as Holy). Lightwell. Seeing priests die. (In all honesty I don’t die a lot, but I see Spirits of Redemption constantly. I guess as a sweeping generalization, priests have the stare-at-Grid syndrome worse than other healers.) Blowing 3 candles every wipe. Looking like a mage if I pick the wrong gear.
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...No=7&sid=1#122

    To be honest, his answers in that thread surprised me and not in a good way... He also says somewhere that he plays resto druid alot, and that raid healing as Holy is supposed to be: CoH and PoM on cooldown, spam renew, period!

  2. #2

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    hmmm

    Holy: PoM on cooldown. CoH on cooldown if there is any raid damage.
    vs
    What I don’t like: Using CoH so much.

    makes little sense.

    and why doesn't he like Lightwell... it's a spell in our books ?!

    What i would like to know is how other priests feel ??

    i'm currently raiding 10 and 25 man ICC normal mode in a semi casual guild... i raid with a lot of shammies and druids. I'm on par with the healing output overall, yesterday i was top healing done overall.. some fights favored shammies or druids and some fights priest (me). Does my fellow healers suck ( i dont think so)... so what's your experience ?? ;-)

    I think priests are ok at healing at the moment, dunno about hardcore raiders or hardmodes... Disc seem a little pointless at times i must say, allthough i have both specs.






  3. #3

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    His argument is somewhat bogus, if you ask me. Seeing Spirits of Redemption constantly? Well, of course, even Holy Priests die. But he omits the fact that when other healers die, you just see a corpse on the floor. The Spirit of Redemption is actually pretty huge and hard to miss and you immediately know a Holy Priest has died. A corpse on the floor doesn't have as much of neon flashlights pointing at it saying "DEAD HEALER!!!!" by a long shot as a Spirit of Redemption does. No wonder the death of a Holy Priest is noticed far more often than the death of other healers.

    I'm pretty sure that healer deaths are about average across the board.

  4. #4

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathor_
    Did Ghostcrawler just call priests a class played by bad players?
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...No=7&sid=1#122

    To be honest, his answers in that thread surprised me and not in a good way... He also says somewhere that he plays resto druid alot, and that raid healing as Holy is supposed to be: CoH and PoM on cooldown, spam renew, period!
    The answers in the big GC plays a priest thread surprised me in one very pleasant way. GC is definitively playing a healing priest.

    What I don't quite like is how he is ... seemingly holding back a whole lot. GC never runs oom as holy. And he rarely uses his shadowfiend. Even the heaviest "priests have enough regen" vocalists on this forums use their shadowfiend vigorously. The only explanation I can come up with is that GC isn't spamming a lot. Or at all. My manaregen is quite excessive on Sindragosa and purticide as well. But not on Blood Queen. Despite being overgeared for int, I still need an innervate now and then on that fight.

    Taking heals of opportunity where it matters is undeniably one way to play a priest. But... it's hard to argue against the notion that other healers are carrying you in this case.

    --

    GC don't like the lightwell. It's old news: the problem is the spell itself. People don't want to think about their own survival, and thus don't use it. It's definitively on the "TODO" list for Cataclysm. Then again, it was on the "TODO" list for WoTLK and TBC as well. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    As far as why GC don't like CoH: I understand this very well. CoH is almost all the time nothing more than a sniper spell if you use it on every cooldown. It's not contibuting to anyones survival. It's only sniping the chain heal. CoH is a cleanup-spell. Something you throw after a PoH. Something you throw to counter light damage, just to top the raid off. It's not really good enough to keep people alive.

    And yet, it's the best heal of the holypriest. Along with Prayer of Mending. Which I will agree is very fun. But - both spells have heavy cooldowns. If I am on sindragosa, and the shaman / druid get the unchained magic debuff, and the paladin gets an iceblock... it's a wipe. I simply cannot keep the MT up alone, nevermind healing the raid at the same time and keeping the next iceblock target topped. No way. Not possible. I even have Lightwell for this situation, but it's not enough! GC very much dodged this part. If you look at the OTHER big thread on the forum, about priests being 66% of a real healer, that issue has very much gone unanswered. It's not just a Valthira issue. Valthira just made it measurable.

    Also, GC is using renew a lot. I can appreciate that. But, this style of healing is druid light. GS isn't covering for a combat ress. Similarly, a flash healing priest is a paladin light. It's still a fail. Holy's real forte is supposed to be Prayer of Healing; that's where we can outshine druids. But that spell has largely been useless since Ulduar, nevermind its nerf.

    As far as binding heal goes, yes, it's a great spell. The reason it goes unused is that spamming Binding Heal is the highway to running OOM.

    GC also missed out on commenting on the setbonus debacle. Considering that about 40% of all threads on the official healing forums are "priests T10 sucks!", it's a bit annoying to be ignored on the matter...

    --

    To do it like GC did:

    Things I love about the holypriest:
    Body and Soul <3. Prayer of Mending. Mana management minigame. Pulling off aoe burst healing that makes a difference. High bar to play the holypriest well gives a gret feeling of accomplishment when you pull it off.

    Things I hate about the holypriest:
    Feeling of utter uselessness on single target healing. Lightwell. Lacking competible healing tools once CoH/ProM is on cooldown. Long time to build up serendipity, serendipity only being built up through (As GC put it) "emergency flash heals". Cooldown juggling. No gain for playing the holypriest well compared to effort spent. Greater Heal.



    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  5. #5

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    He is just saying how he heals, its nothing sinister, he isn't tell you what to do, he isn't even saying he is the best. Just giving his opinion.

  6. #6

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    Also, GC is using renew a lot. I can appreciate that. But, this style of healing is druid light. GS isn't covering for a combat ress. Similarly, a flash healing priest is a paladin light. It's still a fail. Holy's real forte is supposed to be Prayer of Healing; that's where we can outshine druids. But that spell has largely been useless since Ulduar, nevermind its nerf.
    Being able to fill in either role in "light" form does make us a lot more flexible than other healer specs, though. Could it be that Blizzard has that in mind for Holy Priests? Being highly adaptable to the situation as it develops? Able to fill in for "Druid Light" and "Paladin Light" as needed? Decent at both, master of neither?

  7. #7

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    i would think of holy as more of paladin-ultrasuperduperlight

  8. #8
    The Patient
    Join Date
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    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    He didnt call most priest bad players,

    he just said that a priest has to focus on his job to do it propperly, as a holy paladin can just keep his mouse random no his grid and atleast keep the tank up. a priest is the reactive healer that focusses on grid and heal the people that drop. (holy atleast disc would be a preactive healer)

    Quote Originally Posted by TroyBlade
    Every new dps trinket in the game should be itemised exactly and perfectly for you and also be an upgrade over your current trinkets.
    If this doesn't happen, the game is broken beyond horrific terrible belief and is not worth playing.
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...scale/nysalia/
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  9. #9

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathor_
    Did Ghostcrawler just call priests a class played by bad players?
    http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...No=7&sid=1#122

    To be honest, his answers in that thread surprised me and not in a good way... He also says somewhere that he plays resto druid alot, and that raid healing as Holy is supposed to be: CoH and PoM on cooldown, spam renew, period!
    As always, players like to look at what blue's say and read way too much into it and see things that aren't there.

  10. #10

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Normally I like to keep posts the way they are, just editing out expletives, but there was nothing productive from keeping that here. Banned -- Kelesti
    Has opinions about stuff.
    Character - Danrar (Forever Holy Priest)

  11. #11

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Let me break it down real simple guys.... Need raid heals ? Get a Druid or Shaman. Need Tank heals ? Paladin. Want to bring a broken healing class that cannot excel at either ? Priest.

  12. #12

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicism
    <wall of offensive text>
    easy on the nerdrage

    anyway i think that over the time while playing Wow the "best" healer class have shifted like 100 times...

    At the moment priests are a little low on the ladder (maybe) but we still manage, i think we have to work a little harder to get results... but i aint sure because i havent got any druid/shaman/paladin raid healer character.

    In tbc we were the imba raid healers, in Ulduar Disciplin was very useful and holy healing was still descent compared to other aoe classes.
    I'm having doubts about where priests are at the moment opposed to other classes in ICC... There is no doubt that a paladin can tank heal and druids are imba raid healers.

    The problem occurs when we are inferior to both, otherwise we just become a gimmick class with a few handy tools...

    As a holy priest my biggest complain is that fheal is so weak, but we are still encouraged to spam it all the time ???
    Also surge of light really messes op the flow when healing imo...


  13. #13

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ndogg
    Let me break it down real simple guys.... Need raid heals ? Get a Druid or Shaman. Need Tank heals ? Paladin. Want to bring a broken healing class that cannot excel at either ? Priest.
    I wouldn't call priests broken. Just a bit subpar. In almost all content, we can still do the job of a druid.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  14. #14

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    I wouldn't call priests broken. Just a bit subpar. In almost all content, we can still do the job of a druid.
    Subpar ?? Apparently you have not seen a druid in their T10 4pc... Regardless of Tier bonuses, there spells are way better and way more mana efficient than a priests. Rejuv destroys Renew, Wild Growth obliterates CoH. Noone even bothers with Greater Heal cause it takes half a year to get it off. The only thing priest has going for them is PoM and thats a spell you have real no control over.

  15. #15

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    There is one thing Holy priests seem to have over Droods and that is fight mobility. Since a lot of our spells are insta-cast, we can run-and-gun better than most. But, I've never rolled a drood healer so I might be talking out of my bottom orifice.

    One suggestion to GC: Make re-casts of PoM *not* remove an existing PoM that's already bouncing around. Have 'em time out and fall off after awhile as usual, but imagine potentially having two or three of those bouncing around. Fun times!

  16. #16

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    I don't spam CoH, i tend to end up using most if not all my abilities. I usually have around 26% prom and 20% coh (depending on encounter, there are encounters where i don't use CoH, or rarely use it).

    I can definetly say: Once druids, shamans and paladins get their t10 4 p bonus, Holy priests just becomes weak.

    Even if i am the only healer alive, and the boss is on 10% i will probably end up behind the rejuv spaming druid or the CH spaming Shaman. I tend to pick on paladins less: after all they only really have holy light and flash heal as spamable heals.

    with the 4 part bonus of t10: shamans just tend to neglect other spells again: having a shaman top the effective meter on BQL by having 100% CH (no ES, no riptides only the 4p proc and only healing melee's), having a druid top the meters with rejuv only (no WG no swiftmend, nourish, no extra hots on tanks no nothing), ending up as a holy priest: the more i combine essential heals to actually save someone (since rejuv doesn't really save anyone) i get lower on HPS.

    I am considered the best healer in my guild, and i'm rarely top on the meter. I'm considered a good healer cause IF i die or DC (something that happens alot more often then dying) its usually a wipe after 10 secs of me being dead/DCed. I tend to keep people alive and not spam. The sad part: its not noticable on the meters. Why do i care? i personally don't but from time to time i would like to see myself on the top, for my personal epeen? so the rejuv spaming druid won't think he is so essential, so the OP beacon won't think he's the only one keeping the tank alive, i can continue, but i got to apoint that i'm just fed up with the game.

    I;ve been playing a healing priest for 5 years now, and i can say: Discipline priests can be compared to any other healer: especcialy while shield spaming. Holy just falls behind when other healers get their 4 part bonus (unless your healers are really crappy).

  17. #17

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ndogg
    Subpar ?? Apparently you have not seen a druid in their T10 4pc... Regardless of Tier bonuses, there spells are way better and way more mana efficient than a priests. Rejuv destroys Renew, Wild Growth obliterates CoH. Noone even bothers with Greater Heal cause it takes half a year to get it off. The only thing priest has going for them is PoM and thats a spell you have real no control over.
    Yes, a druid will obliterate you on the healing meter. If not, get new druids. But meters aren't everything.
    You can still heal the fight. The fight itself is not outside of your capabilities.

    The exceptions are:
    - Sindragosa 10 man. If the Iceblokc/MT-healing paladin gets iceblocked. That is a situation where holypriests are very much powerless at the moment.
    - Valthira Dreamwalker, any version. The holypriest is best left outside in favor of respeccing the GM's kid brothers's retripaladin to holy for this fight.

    Everywhere else, the priest can do the job. Its harder, dicier and riskier. But a ICC-10man group consisting of a shaman, a discpriest and a holypriest can do the job.
    It's just less painful for everyone involved to bring a paladin, druid and whatever happens to be online as the third healer.
    Non-discipline since 2006. Also: fails. "Chakra, when the walls fell"

  18. #18

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    sounds like he must be a bad priest imo

  19. #19
    Dreadlord
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    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Danner
    The exceptions are:
    - Sindragosa 10 man. If the Iceblokc/MT-healing paladin gets iceblocked. That is a situation where holypriests are very much powerless at the moment.
    - Valthira Dreamwalker, any version. The holypriest is best left outside in favor of respeccing the GM's kid brothers's retripaladin to holy for this fight.
    Aren't both of these situations mitigated by Guardian Spirit? On Sindragosa, if the Pally gets iceblocked, GS should easily make up the difference in healing on the tank, at least long enough to break him out. And on Valithria, GS is up roughly a quarter of the time that the portal healers are spamming on her so, sure, I won't keep up with a Pally, but if you adjust healing for GS, it ought to make up for that. A Holy Priest can also handle healing the raid outside the portal just fine.

  20. #20

    Re: Did Ghostcrawler just call us...?

    Quote Originally Posted by magicism
    Think the thing I have most trouble with there is him saying

    Looking like a mage if I pick the wrong gear.

    FUCK YOU. Mages look like me.
    How is Spirit and Haste wrong gear!? GIVE ME THE GEAR I WANT. Tell mages to go fuck themselves.
    You misunderstood what he said is why. He's saying he dislikes that a lot of priest gear looks like mage gear, not that you're gearing wrong by taking spirit/haste gear.

    Fuck you trying to adapt spirit so it is good for everyone, just leave it to the cloth healing classes. Wanker.
    And then reduce the amount of gear dropping that has spirit on it in order to balance loot tables. As it is now we have more items to choose from, because there are fewer dps only items out there.
    Priests need to look at grid, our class, especially Holy, is about reactions. If we didn't snipe heals we would be so fucking bored it would be unimaginable. Or we would be spamming the shit out of our Renew buttons. Which they also made fucking confusing, are we druids or what?! I look at Grid for something to do. If there is a part of a fight where I need to run away from something I will look at grid but this isn't often. I can see massive ice things swirling round behind my grid. Shit I better move away from them and the next spell I cast might as well be Binding Heal, job done.
    That's what he's saying. He's not saying 'priests are retards so they stare at grid all the time' he's saying 'priests are more inclined to be grid watching on account of their spec's playstyle, which may account for lower situational awareness'

    And The Core, blues are the only people we have contact to in Blizzard. Thier posts are like press releases. If Obama said in a press release "We are currently in bed with Osama and his merry men" you are going to read alot in to that and quite rightly so.
    And if Obama said 'We are involved in discussion with our enemies in an attempt to resolve conflict' someone like you would say 'Obviously this means he's having anal sex with Hitler's dead corpse'.


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