Trinket question for fellow Feral Druids

[arel00]

when i mentioned strength i was talking about gems (when you have the gem slots available). haste will always be better than crit rating (tho everyone knows that), however haste only moves ahead of agility after crit cap. rawr, toskk's and some theorycrafters agree with this (i say some as i don't know them all)

We are not talking about gems, so stop making pointless observations.
Gems, anyway, are dedicated to capping ArP first, and then Hit/Exp if you're closing in to the crit cap. This isn't my math either, Toskk, RAWR etc all mark that priority. By the time you'll have free gems slots, if any, you will be past the point where Haste has already become better than Strength.

On a second note: learn to read my post. I said "264+ gear". I didn't say "ICC gear", nor I said "almost 264" or something similar. I KNOW it takes a whole lot for Haste to be that good. I didn't say RAWR or Toskk are wrong either. So before shitting my statements, try to understand what I actually wrote.

[littlepiggy]

On a second note: learn to read my post. I said "264+ gear". I didn't say "ICC gear", nor I said "almost 264" or something similar. I KNOW it takes a whole lot for Haste to be that good. I didn't say RAWR or Toskk are wrong either. So before shitting my statements, try to understand what I actually wrote.

"shifting into 264+ gear" meaning going from 245 to 264 gear or meaning 264 and some 277? either way you said war token crushes heroic DV and skull, but it doesn't yet. i misunderstood the shifting into 264 part so i apologize, but i never mentioned anything about you saying rawr and toskk's are wrong and my intent wasn't to "shit on your statements" but this guy is looking for advice on what to do now, not what to do in full BiS gear

[Auroro]

Crit will never fight with haste. You can't cap haste.

And before the info you linked said you shouldn't actively try to cap hit and expertise unless your crit capped. Do you read your info before spurting it out like it's the truth or do you just do what EJ tells you to?

If you have read this link, you would have seen crit will fight against haste.

Many people would agree that once you get 100% ARP without using a trinket, both Hit and Expertise become even more important than crit. By gemming and enchanting for those you would see your dps becoming less rng, and more of a consistent dps. Crit is rng, no doubt.

ARP (1400) > Hit/Exp (8%/26) > Haste <∞> Crit > Str

That symbol, <∞>, means fighting for control.

If I have a 264 trinket that give an Agility stat, I would have tested it as well. However, I only have a Crit stat trinket and a Haste stat trinket.

If you have gem ARP without thinking about your hit and expertise, you are going to make your rotation harder than having those two cap.

Feel free to use more Fractured Cardinal Ruby instead of the orange gems to come closer to the ArP Hardcap. On such a high ArP level, ArP is worth more than any other stat. The downside is, that your rotation will get more complicated because you will miss more often.

Which one do you want? A rotation that is more complicated because you will miss more often or a rotation that is less complicated because you will not miss at all.

I choose a rotation that is less complicated because you will not miss at all. You can choose whatever you want.

[littlepiggy]

both Hit and Expertise become even more important than crit.

the only reason they ever become more important than crit is when you are past YOUR crit cap. when you get hit and exp capped, YOUR crit cap goes up to THE crit cap.

crit cap = 77.8 minus chance to miss and chance to be dodged

also to the link, as biznick said in another post they probably didn't up the crit cap yet (as it was 73 something) and so you lose dps because it thinks you're over it, making it slightly less valuable

[Melonberry]

If you have read this link, you would have seen crit will fight against haste.

Many people would agree that once you get 100% ARP without using a trinket, both Hit and Expertise become even more important than crit. By gemming and enchanting for those you would see your dps becoming less rng, and more of a consistent dps. Crit is rng, no doubt.

ARP (1400) > Hit/Exp (8%/26) > Haste <∞> Crit > Str

That symbol, <∞>, means fighting for control.

If I have a 264 trinket that give an Agility stat, I would have tested it as well. However, I only have a Crit stat trinket and a Haste stat trinket.

If you have gem ARP without thinking about your hit and expertise, you are going to make your rotation harder than having those two cap.

Which one do you want? A rotation that is more complicated because you will miss more often or a rotation that is less complicated because you will not miss at all.

I choose a rotation that is less complicated because you will not miss at all. You can choose whatever you want.

You linked to yourself. In fact a post from yourself proving that haste is way better than crit. Seriously. Does anyone believe you? You don't even agree with yourself.

46 dps from a single trinket is a very big difference, considering the trinket is probably less than 500 dps total. 10% is not fighting with, it's not even in the same league.


And you can choose a less complicated rotation anyday, but it's still worse dps to gem hit and expertise if you aren't crit capped.

There are also a few bis lists that I would consider competitive, all on Elitist Jerks (In a thread you've linked before) None hit or expertise capped. Note: all of those set ups are closer in dps than your crit vs haste idea.

[Auroro]

You linked to yourself. In fact a post from yourself proving that haste is way better than crit. Seriously. Does anyone believe you? You don't even agree with yourself.

46 dps from a single trinket is a very big difference, considering the trinket is probably less than 500 dps total. 10% is not fighting with, it's not even in the same league.

And you can choose a less complicated rotation anyday, but it's still worse dps to gem hit and expertise if you aren't crit capped.

There are also a few bis lists that I would consider competitive, all on Elitist Jerks (In a thread you've linked before) None hit or expertise capped. Note: all of those set ups are closer in dps than your crit vs haste idea.

In that link, you would have found the quote that state that there are some people who like to to be hit cap and expertise. Well, I am one of those people. I did said that once you get ARP cap you will want to have hit cap and expertise cap.

You said that I do not agree with myself with the simcraft info. I would said that I think this might happen. It give me room to test the idea and find out if it work. You should know this type of action, it is called hypothesis. If I have all the items needed to test this hypothesis, I would have been able to see myself and build upon the idea of hypothesis toward gear.

Also are you blind, the person that wrote that guild said 5xGlinting Ametrine, 2xAccurate Ametrine, Icewalker on Boots, and Precision on Gloves for T10. All of those items give Hit. Accurate Ametrine give exp and hit. That is 7 gems with Hit rating, I am asking you why you think it is wrong when Rawr proven that the closer you are to ARP cap, you will want to gem Hit/Exp. The writer also wrote that if you want to gem more ARP and not the hit rating you can do it, just a risk for your rotation.

If you want to prove them wrong, then download their info. Both Rawr and Simcraft. If you do not than why are you challenging them and not me they were the one that help support the program in the first place. Unless you got ban from their forum.

If you think I make up the number, well, test them. Compare to your idea of crit cap. Show me the data that you have learn while comparing the two. I would tell you that in those program the RNG god love you and gave you those stat. That why I did not trust those data too much, because the fight are different between different bosses. In a standing boss like Deathbringer you would see your dps rocket while rotface your dps get weaken.

I did link you to page where I tested the idea under EJ's programs and I found that Haste beat crit by 46 dps (2% error), when you have ARP/Hit/Exp cap. You also should have see that I said one gem that can be anything, you pick. I pick Haste, you can pick Agility if you want to.

You can do whatever you want with your character, However try be nice toward other people who made their dps consistent. We will try to be nice to your choice of having more RNG. I just said that Hit/Exp is a great stat and it is ok to gem for it.

If you do get the DPS set done and tested it, good job. For me I just going to help my guild being the best Tank while getting gear for melee DPS spec and Resto spec at the same time. I already got one item down from the list and 17 to go for the kitty spec, until I get there I will be wearing rogue gear and testing new ideas for months to come.

[littlepiggy]

I did said that once you get ARP cap you will want to have hit cap and expertise cap.

I am asking you why you think it is wrong when Rawr proven that the closer you are to ARP cap, you will want to gem Hit/Exp.

i've said this before, but you gem for hit and expertise because you want to push your crit cap up, or i suppose if you want the smooth rotation, however the BiS lists gem for hit and expertise to push it up. right now in mostly 264 gear (10 264, 1 245, 4 251 and 1 277) i'm at 1175 arp, with every gem except one for the meta, ArP and i'm pushing MY crit cap (77.8 - chance to miss and be dodged). so with better gear to hit more arp you would be past your own crit cap and wanting to gem hit and expertise to push it up (to 77.8).

again, in your sim it more than likely never updated the crit cap. by using the trinket you did you put yourself over the crit cap and devalued crit, it's not your fault but it doesn't mean haste is better than crit yet (as a matter of fact, rawr probably isn't updated either however i'm almost postive Toskk's is as Yawning mentioned updating it a couple days after it was realized that the suppression was gone)