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  1. #281

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookes
    I'm not sure they'd let that fly in pvp, seems like they'd restrict it to pve, or at least make a talent for it. (although seeing tanks wreck arenas lately, i can't put much past them...)
    Also, bosses taking less damage if they parry...that would really boost up the importance of tanks having expertise. Another cap they absolutely must hit.
    Implying it will affect mobs.
    I don't know what you're getting at with the first part of your post; I'll just miss the added miss chance we got from being at 540 defense. As for the seemingly greater importance of expertise, I find that to be VERY interesting, yet again. Maybe I should race change to an orc...and get an axe.

  2. #282

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by DontTrustTheGnomes22
    Hold up now. Correct me if im wrong because I only read this once but are they evening out the armor for cloth,leather,mail and plate? isent the whole point of plate to be stronger and more durable then cloth? ???
    I don't think it's that extreme. It's just a potential fulcrum shift away from world of meleecraft. Hell, a bit of armor would do squishies some good.

  3. #283

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by [-Spiritus-
    ]
    What good healer isn't doing this already? Are you suggesting that good healers press one button to win? Heck, even good Paladins press more than HL, and they are arguably the most "spammy" healer by your definition.

    If your not reducing the number of GCDs cast, and I'm already being as efficient as I can with my spells, how am I suppose to change my playstyle to reflect regen nerfs w/o some drastic change to the mana cost of spells, or the amount which they heal?

    WotlK 'Clysm
    -------- ---------
    GCD1: Heal1 GCD1: Heal1
    GCD2: Heal1 GCD2: Heal1
    GCD3: Heal2 GCD3: Heal2
    GCD4: Heal4 GCD4: Heal4
    GCD5: Heal3 GCD5: Heal3

    Sooo... explain to me how the regen nerf will do anything but make me run out of mana faster?

    This brings it to my point that encounters in 'Clysm, by this interpretation, will be about rDPS>healer mana pool.
    A lot of healers are simply chaining their biggest heals because they have so much haste and so much mana that it doesn't matter. So their current rotation looks like:

    GCD1: Big Heal
    GCD2: Big Heal
    GCD3: Big Heal
    GCD4: Big Heal

    And for nine out of ten fights, they're fine. Granted this is more true for tank healers than raid healers, raid healers usually throw in a group heal every five or six GCDs whenever it's off CD. Not all healers heal this way, the good one certainly don't, but huge mana pools and insane haste make it a workable tactic that Blizz is trying to get rid of.

  4. #284

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    So druids and shamans are able to double their healing gear as spell DPS. So not fair! :P And holy and disc priests finally won't be competing against locks, mages, and shadow priests.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftfeet
    Rejoice, no more stupid weapon skills
    Yay!

  5. #285

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookes
    Rage is already affected by haste, e.g., the faster you swing the more rage you're getting, no?
    Rogues already have crazy regen on their energy, although I think it might make feral a little easier.
    Noone can really say if hunters will need it or not, since noone knows exactly how focus will work yet. Supposedly it'll regen twice as fast as energy, with most spells costing ~40-60, so maybe it won't be as annoying as playing an energy class.

    And how can I forget beloved dk's? Faster runes is interesting, wonder how that would work with imp uh presence...
    True, the faster you swing, the more rage you get[EDIT: I meant by the faster you swing, the more often you hit, so the more rage you get]. But it's not a huge difference. With 2h weapons, you tend to fill up your rage bar in just a couple hits anyways, especially the more damage you do with them, which is where having endless rage due to top gear comes in. So, haste is generally considered a crap stat currently by warriors. Could see it possibly helping tanks some, but since they're generating rage through being hit also anyways, still probably not a big help. And I think the devs said they do want haste to be more beneficial than it is.

  6. #286

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by DrgnDancer
    A lot of healers are simply chaining their biggest heals because they have so much haste and so much mana that it doesn't matter. So their current rotation looks like:

    GCD1: Big Heal
    GCD2: Big Heal
    GCD3: Big Heal
    GCD4: Big Heal

    And for nine out of ten fights, they're fine. Granted this is more true for tank healers than raid healers, raid healers usually throw in a group heal every five or six GCDs whenever it's off CD. Not all healers heal this way, the good one certainly don't, but huge mana pools and insane haste make it a workable tactic that Blizz is trying to get rid of.
    So good healers don't cast 5 globals worth of hots inbetween a 6 second cooldown? Guess I've been playing wrong.

  7. #287

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    they remove armor penetration from gear and give us haste instead - nice!
    how is that supposed to be good for a warrior?
    oh wait, we are tanks, I get it.

    soooo glad I am not gonna be playing cataclysm

  8. #288

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Seem like good changes to me. To all the people out there who say they know exactly what gear is better than other gear, that is because someone else told you what stats are better than the others, and what value they hold. Some even go as far as plugging their character and gear into a program that tells them what is an upgrade.

    Having someone else tell you EP values for your class and progression level isn't "hardcore". Trying to eliminate the need to do these things in order to perform at the top level for your class is a step in the right direction for sure. There will still be some bads out there who think that 10 crit is better than 20 strength because they see more BIG NUMBERS, but the average good player won't need to look at someone else's math to decide if 30 ArP is better than 20 strength.

    Say you understand the current stats all you want, but the simple fact is that if you are striving to do the most damage you can do / heal as well as you possibly can / survive the most attacks as possible, and you aren't min/maxing with EP values or a simulator, then you aren't doing as well as you could be doing. This is exactly what they want to avoid - not eliminate because that's impossible, but they don't want everybody running to someone elses math to keep up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimraven
    they remove armor penetration from gear and give us haste instead - nice!
    how is that supposed to be good for a warrior?
    oh wait, we are tanks, I get it.

    soooo glad I am not gonna be playing cataclysm
    It's leveling gear. Who cares. You could level just fine if you bought some greens off the AH - I don't think a little more haste is going to prevent you from killing a mob with 20k health.

  9. #289

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaedalmael
    True, the faster you swing, the more rage you get. But it's not a huge difference. With 2h weapons, you tend to fill up your rage bar in just a couple hits anyways, especially the more damage you do with them, which is where having endless rage due to top gear comes in. So, haste is generally considered a crap stat currently by warriors. Could see it possibly helping tanks some, but since they're generating rage through being hit also anyways, still probably not a big help. And I think the devs said they do want haste to be more beneficial than it is.
    I would love for haste to be more beneficial to a my warrior, in any capacity. I think that the infinite rage scenario due to awesome gear is going to be addressed, yet again, by further rage normalization, which is poopy for us warriors. However, that will in all likelihood drive haste to something to be desired.

  10. #290

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Elektrik


    It's leveling gear. Who cares. You could level just fine if you bought some greens off the AH - I don't think a little more haste is going to prevent you from killing a mob with 20k health.
    noone gives a shit about questing
    it's dps meters while raiding is where the fun begins

  11. #291

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Brookes
    I might be wrong, but isn't that the same thing that happens each expansion? I.E. you'll still need 17% hit rating to hit a lvl 88, or what have you, but that 17% will take around 500 hit rating instead of the ~300 that's needed now.
    I got the impression that it was more like (using WOTLK raids and levels) bosses in Naxx will act like they are level 83, and thus you need 17% hit rating to hit them, but bosses in ICC will act as if they are level 85 so you need 26% (or whatever) hit rating to hit them.

  12. #292

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Kryptiki
    I would love for haste to be more beneficial to a my warrior, in any capacity. I think that the infinite rage scenario due to awesome gear is going to be addressed, yet again, by further rage normalization, which is poopy for us warriors. However, that will in all likelihood drive haste to something to be desired.
    Can you link your wowarmory profile so I could laugh at your warrior?
    If you go for haste as a warrior you are terrible

  13. #293

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimraven
    noone gives a shit about questing
    it's dps meters while raiding is where the fun begins
    Right. So what do the stats on your level 80 gear matter when you hit 85? lol

  14. #294

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimraven
    Can you link your wowarmory profile so I could laugh at your warrior?
    If you go for haste as a warrior you are terrible

    He didn't say he goes for haste currently, he says he would love for it to be more useful. Pay attention.

  15. #295

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    what people forget is that there will some lava rivers running through old content, so think twice before you quit.
    Who needs gameplay when you have ACHIEVEMENTS? Don't worry about beating levels, finding ways to kill enemies, or beating the final boss... there are none. Focus solely on your ultimate destiny... doing random tasks that have nothing to do with anything. Metagame yourself with ease! Self-satisfaction never felt so... artificial!

  16. #296

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by DrgnDancer
    I got the impression that it was more like (using WOTLK raids and levels) bosses in Naxx will act like they are level 83, and thus you need 17% hit rating to hit them, but bosses in ICC will act as if they are level 85 so you need 26% (or whatever) hit rating to hit them.
    Hm...if that does turn out to be the case, I can see where they're coming from. As gear gets better you have bigger numbers on gear...so it might be to prevent you from starting out with 2 pieces of gear that total 50 hit, and ending up only needing 1 piece with the same hit on it.

  17. #297

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimraven
    Can you link your wowarmory profile so I could laugh at your warrior?
    If you go for haste as a warrior you are terrible
    dude, read before you write. I would love it if haste did something useful for my warrior. I don't stack, look for, or intentionally gear haste. I tank, so haste is right out the damn window, and this is all speculation about an expansion where we have seen nothing in terms of effectiveness of stats.

  18. #298

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Elektrik
    Right. So what do the stats on your level 80 gear matter when you hit 85? lol
    that's not the point
    Of course we would get lvl 85 gear but it won't have armor penetration on it.
    It will have haste on it instead and well critical strike rating assuming you are hit and expertise capped.

    That is boring!
    Plus, haste is TERRIBLE for warrior!!!

  19. #299

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by blupp
    what people forget is that there will some lava rivers running through old content, so think twice before you quit.
    this

  20. #300
    Mechagnome Silenteyes's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    nice... so all armor pen will be haste and haste will affect melee more? I never liked haste anyway

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