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  1. #541

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mizumi
    A few months after the first vanilla release I remember reading a blue post on the forums which stated that they were never going to try to balance the classes for PvP, because the core of the game was PvE and PvP was just an optional extra tacked on afterwards.
    I wish they would have kept to that statement. :-\

    Vanilla pvp.. endless bg grinding? yea those pvp dont need balancing.

  2. #542

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Does anyone understand how Parry will work??

    Parry - Parry no longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attacks. Instead, when you parry an attack, it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all). In other words, Dodge is a chance to avoid 100% of the damage from one attack, Parry is a chance to avoid 50% of the damage from two attacks, and Block is a chance to avoid 30% of the damage from one attack.

    If I Parry an attack, the next attach will do 50% damage. Does that mean that the second attack does not roll again on the hit table? Does that mean there is 0% chance to dodge that atatck.

    An example would be where you know a massive hit is coming from a boss in the next few seconds, and you parry the attack before it. Does this mean you are definately going to take 50% dmg from the massive hit or is there still a chance to Dodge it completely?

    N.B I think in general the changes seem good and it will make gear selection a lot easier and I love the option to shuffle your stats for different ones (even if it is only 50% of the choosen stat).

  3. #543

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Hmm any have an idea of what happens with say +sp on staff enchants?

  4. #544

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Marduke
    On no no no.
    This is an OUTRAGE!

    Weapon Skill needs to be back in.
    I agree (in all seriousness :P) though, there should just be one WEAPON skill that works like all the current different weapon skills.

  5. #545

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Infallible
    Does anyone understand how Parry will work??

    Parry - Parry no longer provides 100% avoidance and no longer speeds up attacks. Instead, when you parry an attack, it and the next attack will each hit for 50% damage (assuming they hit at all). In other words, Dodge is a chance to avoid 100% of the damage from one attack, Parry is a chance to avoid 50% of the damage from two attacks, and Block is a chance to avoid 30% of the damage from one attack.

    If I Parry an attack, the next attach will do 50% damage. Does that mean that the second attack does not roll again on the hit table? Does that mean there is 0% chance to dodge that atatck.

    An example would be where you know a massive hit is coming from a boss in the next few seconds, and you parry the attack before it. Does this mean you are definately going to take 50% dmg from the massive hit or is there still a chance to Dodge it completely?

    N.B I think in general the changes seem good and it will make gear selection a lot easier and I love the option to shuffle your stats for different ones (even if it is only 50% of the choosen stat).
    What I understand is, parry and block are still on the attack table. When you parry an attack it deals 50% less damage. The next attack also deals 50% less if it hits but also rolls on the attack table. if the next attack would be dodge, the second parry effect is wasted. if it is a hit you take 50% less damage. if it is a block you take 50% of the damage you would take after the block (multiplicative effect) and if it again is a parry you take 75% less damage and again 50% less on the next.

  6. #546

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDave
    The dumbing down of WoW continues....sigh

    Homogenization FTW....not.

    What happened to diverisity in the WoW universe? Everyone will look the same with the same stats...dull, dull, dull.

    My rule is if it ain't broke don't fix it.
    So in your opinion the current system where half of melee + hunters wants ArP only and the other half wants haste only is totally working? Not broken at all? ArP stacking, where it gets much better the more you have it - not broken? Reaching melee critical cap with high-end gear, completely fine and definately not broken?

    Every class/spec is more or less stacking one stat now (not counting cappable stuff like hit and exp) - this doesn't seem very intelligent to me.

    If they are making hit, crit, haste and mastery about equally effective for everyone how is this dumbing down? Imo if anything it requires more theorycrafting and spreadsheet to find the "ultimate" bis gearset.

    Oh and btw, being able to type "elitistjerks.com" in the address bar makes you soooooooooooo smart - imagine if you didn't need to do this everytime you get new gear! Amb. Udina would say: THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!

  7. #547

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    I dunno why you guys are bitching so much about it. First of all, the changes are good - it's easier to decide what gear is for you and better loot chances - no more plate melee DPS rolling for a agi items etc.

    Then less failing new players - I won't say newbies / noobs because we all were that when we started with wow. And I have to say it's fucking hard for a new player to decide what stats are important for him, when the low level items are so fucking retarted (uldaman, last boss, spirit + agi on a ring?! etc. pp.).

    And without you reading some guides etc. it's almost impossible to get a talent tree working with some usefull items / sockets / enchants.

    What I mean is, a new or 'casual' player enjoying the game without reading tons of guides etc. wont be able to play at least the way it should be. Like a DPS doing 4k DPS with ilvl 250 gear in 25 man mode ...

    This way the players will know what EQ they need to use and what stats are important to at least perform well in a 5man ini or raid. They won't top the meters but at least do some good dmg/heal/whatever.

    If you want to top the meters you have to theocraft and read tons of forum guides, postings, testings etc. pp. - if you just want to play ... do it

    It's a nice way of change ... why do I even need to READ forums to know what kind of EQ etc. I need? Shouldnt the GAME itself suggest what I need to use?
    "Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrej and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is gonna kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart. I am death incarnate and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." - Susan Ivanova, Between the Darkness and the Light, Babylon 5

    "Only one human captain ever survived a battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me! You are in front of me! If you value your lives - be somewhere else!" - Delenn, Severed Dreams, Babylon 5

  8. #548

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Indeed, separate WoW from the internet community supporting it, and the game is indecipherable. The UI is pathetic in informing you how the system works

  9. #549

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zepheia
    No offense, but I don't really appreciate being called a moron for an honest question. The reason why I asked in the first place is because pallies don't really use MP5 now (or at least in a limited amount). Maybe I've been informed wrong (or read the talents wrong) but most of the pally's regen is from crits.
    Oh but you are one. If you would've read the whole thing atleast twice over it states several times that paladins and shamans who heal will have use for spirit and that mana regeneration is going to be removed.

  10. #550

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    So in your opinion the current system where half of melee + hunters wants ArP only and the other half wants haste only is totally working? Not broken at all? ArP stacking, where it gets much better the more you have it - not broken? Reaching melee critical cap with high-end gear, completely fine and definately not broken?

    Every class/spec is more or less stacking one stat now (not counting cappable stuff like hit and exp) - this doesn't seem very intelligent to me.
    If you had read the changes you'd know that Cata will be all about stacking one stat. Tanks will just be the fleshbags every good healer hated and tanks with knowledge laughed about.

    Why is it an outrage when people put some effort in their characters and not just play for loot? You can down all bosses on normal mode without ever knowing what theorycrafting is or where any WoW related forums are, so there is no point in dumping down any further. It just caters the lazy and stupid people, again. People that dont care at all about their character, but hey its just meant as a roleplaying game, who cares about the characters?
    Who needs gameplay when you have ACHIEVEMENTS? Don't worry about beating levels, finding ways to kill enemies, or beating the final boss... there are none. Focus solely on your ultimate destiny... doing random tasks that have nothing to do with anything. Metagame yourself with ease! Self-satisfaction never felt so... artificial!

  11. #551

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by jessmaster
    "plate doesn’t offer so much more protection than mail, leather, and cloth."


    Brb, re-rolling rogue to take advantage of this retarded change....


    And just for reference, I would much rather be wearing plate armor as opposed to cloth if someone is swinging an axe at me....
    Since you are not a healer in endgame raids I am sure this change is 'retarded' from your point of view. Seeing a rogue or enhancement shaman getting killed in 1 second just because they got hit by cleave or a frontal attack somewhere must surely be always the healers fault right?

  12. #552

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by blupp
    If you had read the changes you'd know that Cata will be all about stacking one stat. Tanks will just be the fleshbags every good healer hated and tanks with knowledge laughed about.
    :

  13. #553

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Did you read the same post the rest of us read? How on earth did you arrive at the conclusion that we will only stack one stat? Do you have the talent trees available? I have some news for you people, it is the talents and class spells that determine how stats balance out. Stat changes mean squat to how the stats will actually balance against each other with no knowledge of rating equivalencies and talents (and possibly new spells).

  14. #554

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd
    Indeed, separate WoW from the internet community supporting it, and the game is indecipherable. The UI is pathetic in informing you how the system works
    Well, I didn't say to separate the game from the internet community, but to give a player the chance to play the game to a good degree without reading a guide etc.

    This is actually NOT possible.
    "Who am I? I am Susan Ivanova, Commander, daughter of Andrej and Sophie Ivanov. I am the right hand of vengeance and the boot that is gonna kick your sorry ass all the way back to Earth, sweetheart. I am death incarnate and the last living thing that you are ever going to see. God sent me." - Susan Ivanova, Between the Darkness and the Light, Babylon 5

    "Only one human captain ever survived a battle with a Minbari fleet. He is behind me! You are in front of me! If you value your lives - be somewhere else!" - Delenn, Severed Dreams, Babylon 5

  15. #555
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    The tank gear will have less stamina than DPS gear... Why am I affraid of all the retribution paladins and arms warriors that we will suddenly see tanking...
    All in all, I have to say I don't like the tank changes. If this is the way they want to increase the number of tanks, then all that comes to my mind is yet another "You're doing it wrong" picture...

  16. #556

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Zepheia

    I guess my biggest question is: what about Holy Pallies? They don't use spirit now, so will they be using it in Cata? or will it be like it is now?
    People like you are the reason why they're dumbing-down the system. lol.

  17. #557

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    I tried to read through most of the comments, but I finally had to stop somewhere around page 14. I'm just curious how reforging would work. The blue post used odd words and I read several explanations that make sense. For example, an item with 50 crit and 50 hit can be changed to 50 crit and 25 haste. Or, 50 crit and 50 hit can be changed to 50 crit, 25 hit and 25 haste. I guess we'll have to see when they decide to give us more info.

  18. #558

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalman
    This seriously disgusts me. They want everything available to everyone and everything to be easier. Its fun deciding what gear to get and what might be better. I don't want to automatically look at gear for 2 seconds and be able to say, "That is better, 100% sure, no questioning it." Stats in this game are not complicated. I'm sorry, but if you think that it's complicated, then your bad, or have never talked to anybody about your class. I knew what I needed of my stats and what was good before any patches usually come out, or right after a patch.
    If anything, this is making the game LESS fun imo...
    That doesn't really make sense. There is not the world of theorycrafters that like a lot of different stats (even if they finally do the same thing) and the world of people that do not like theorycrafting.

    Personnally, I like some things in theorycrafting. How things interact with each other, for example. How two stats may differ from each other as well.

    Does having strength AND attack power on your gear add depth to the game ? Does it raise some interesting questions needing some new point of view ? Do these stats react differently say, to the encounter, the amount of move you'll have to make ?

    No, it doesn't, because it does the same thing. It justs makes you hit harder. The ONLY question you need to ask is "what is the impact of each one in terms of pure dps", because appart from this, those statistics are the same.

    Same question for Agility vs. Attack power. They finally make the same question rise.

    And this question is :

    a) easy to answer globally, and
    b) boring to answer in each particular case, because it is just a matter of testing (done by a spreadsheet).

    I can't see how you can consider that opening Excel to test your gear is "interesting". It is boring.

    Discussing the value of Armor Pen vs. Agility for a hunt is an interesting question, for it raises movement considerations (for example). Discussing the value of Str. vs. Attack power is totally boring. Just compute how much AP the strength gives. Compare this to the amount of AP. Wow ! Depth !

    You can do the same for a rogue or a hunt : compare Agility VS AP. You just have to add crit in you "analysis", so it will depend of the amount of crit you already have. The mathematical question is deadly boring, and you use a spreadsheet because it's annoying to do the same computation three hundred times. In mathematical terms, it is as interesting as computing the amount of taxes you have to pay, WAHOOOOW SO COOL !

  19. #559

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    a lot of very good changers.

    max weapon skill - pure win! the best change in there imo. it's a stupidly archaic notion to have to level 400 bloody points of weapon skill for each weapon you get.
    1 rank of spells - well this idea isn't new, but it's nice anyway. hopefully reduce ridiculously over the top training costs (100g every couple of levels > 70 is just crazy when you are trying to save for flying skills). also stops mages using rank 1 frostbolts for uber quick slows, which is good. it's basically exploiting the game as is.
    no defence on gear - about bloody time if you ask me. again another stupidly archaic notion to need defence rating.

    some silly changes though, but have to see how they pan out:
    tanks - you will have less HP on tank gear than dps get on dps gear...um what? so you gotta gem stam to the max to make up for a lack of stamina on tank gear? unless I misread it, that seems silly
    how will dps casters be affected by taking healer gear with spirit on? there may not always be a viable non-spirit upgrade available, and a spirit-upgrade would be viable, but how will that impact non-healers?
    spellpower still left on weapons - why? just give them more intellect as you get better weapons? what's so hard about that?? just get rid of it all together..silly blizz.
    armour differences scaled down - why? they are reducing ArP - 100% (achievable) down to probably 10-20% passive for physical classes

    http://files.me.com/sureshk/j0r7w6

  20. #560

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by jorge_av
    I tried to read through most of the comments, but I finally had to stop somewhere around page 14. I'm just curious how reforging would work. The blue post used odd words and I read several explanations that make sense. For example, an item with 50 crit and 50 hit can be changed to 50 crit and 25 haste. Or, 50 crit and 50 hit can be changed to 50 crit, 25 hit and 25 haste. I guess we'll have to see when they decide to give us more info.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    As a general rule of thumb, you’ll be able to convert one stat to 50% of another stat.
    50 Crit + 50 Hit ==> 50 Crit + 25 Haste (by removing hit you get 50% of it as haste)

    I couldnt read all 38 pages gave up after middle but my question is what about Gnomes? I mean their 5% intellect Racial.. 5% might not seem a lot at first but its really a huge number when you play with end game gear. Out of around 12M players like 3M of them are Alliance Spell power users.. It means that -with Gnomeregan being taken back in a short time- we will be a big happy family inside Gnomeregan soon with around half of every server Alliance side as Gnomes.. I havent seen any changes about that racial bonus since now.. Any ideas?

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