Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

[Kryptiki]

Well cloth armor can be infused with magic, which turns every weapon swung at you into... cotton candy! Cloth armor > Plate armor > Axe.

That is my point, exactly. Cloth armor, in and of itself, does not need to have a substantial amount of physical damage mitigation. All things being equal, with nothing but physical armor to protect a body, plate should be about three to four times as effective (well, that's my opinion anyway).

[Malthurius]

World of Retardcraft.

For those who never remembered number 540 we remove defence.
For those who never remembered where to learn polearms, we remove weapon skills.
For those who never remembered where class trainer is and can't understand what RankWatch whispers to them, we removed spell ranks.
And of course, for those tanks who can't decide should they gem stamina or dodge, we reduce stamina on tank gear so we would all gem stamina.

Now we finally make this game so ridiculously easy, every imbecile can look smart.
And, see, how many people in these 10 pages are exalted with changes. Probably had hard time remembering 540 defence...

World of Bettercraft

For those who are starting the game as a tank, can level as a tank/don't have to worry about a stat we remove defense and tack it onto stances
For those who don't feel like spending 1g and 2 hours leveling a weapon skill, we removed weapon skills
Those who don't want to leave their training spot/farming spot/questing spot or spend gold on spell ranks, we removed that, butcha still have to go learn the spells initially.
And those tanks who don't know what to stack in gems, stack stam, and reforge for parry, block, or dodge, depending on your taste.

Now the game doesn't require you to do a google of "What's the best gem to stack as a "insert class/spec here""

[stupid11]

So..... Healers are supposed to use spirit, and casters aren't supposed to.

How the hell are they going to simplify gearing up a Mage/Lock/Shadow Priest vs. Holy/Disc Priests?

They said Ele Shamans and Moonkins would use Spirit instead of Hit (really lazy change imo), but what about casters and shadow priests?

[DSRilk]

To people complaining about healing: when they say spamming is bad, they mean spamming ONE spell. Getting rid of spam healing does not mean heal, then wait 3 GCDs, then heal again. It means healing every GCD, but having to decide whether you want to use the quick small heal, the big slow efficient one, the HoT, etc.

Most of the other inane assumptions people are whining about others have addressed, so I'll let those go. I have to say, however, it seems like many of the people posting this nonsense assume that the Blizz dev staff are morons who don't know what they're doing. Might I recommend keeping in mind that these same people built the game you've loved so far, that they know the bigger plans and picture, and that perhaps... just perhaps... they know something about what works when it comes to game design?

[edit] Oh, and for those that haven't noticed, you gain roughly 1 or 2 new rank 1 spells every other level, so you're not losing your reason for training. You're just losing that annoying "crap, now my frost mage's frost bolt is garbage compared to his fireball for the next four levels." [/edit]

[fxrs]

Speaking as a Vanilla player Warrior MT.

Can't. Wait.

Just curious, why? And no this this isn't meant to be sarcasm.

[Waterisbest]

Very interesting changes.

Will the game become more easy or difficult? Only time will tell, as stats are not the only thing that will determine the game difficulty. According to me, it will stay the same, with some theory crafting made easier with the removal of most ridiculous stats in game like arp. But we don't know how complicated mastery will end up as it will be used by every class.

Also people who are thinking everyone will have the same hp pool should read the post again. They want hp pools to be closer rather plate wearers running with 30%-35% more hp then others. Most probably every class will have 5%-15% hp difference, which is needed.

One thing that bugs me is the change to how tanks will become crit immune by stance/presence/aura/bear change. This will mean if a tank dies in a raid, any of the plate dps or druid will change form and tank stuff? I did not understand this change personally, would like anyone who understand it better to explain please

[Brookes]

So..... Healers are supposed to use spirit, and casters aren't supposed to.

How the hell are they going to simplify gearing up a Mage/Lock/Shadow Priest vs. Holy/Disc Priests?

They said Ele Shamans and Moonkins would use Spirit instead of Hit (really lazy change imo), but what about casters and shadow priests?

I honestly have no clue, but, maybe it's only temporary for lack of hit on certain gear?

[Shadowmas]

Is it just me or does everyone else think hunters are screwed??????

Because im a hunter and all i see is nerf nerf nerf nerf lol

[Isashi]

WOOOT no more inane spreadsheets to work through everytime i get a new item, or blizz change stats somewhere. Seriously i spend more time looking over spreadsheets than playing the game with the way things currently stand (possibly due to being able to look at spreadsheets at work instead of playing wow ... but my point still stands :P)

As a tank, these changes are awesome ... at least in my opinion, im sure there are more ppl screaming "OMGWTFBLIZZ NO CHANGEZ WAHHH!!!111oneeleven!" ...

Death to spreadsheets!

[dazline]

lazy ass hats holy shit. weapon skill was what? one swing per lvl till you like within 50 lvls to cap? oh no thats so hard!

its your own fualt you didnt buy a a green 2h with a less than 2 sec attack speed to cut down maybe 30 seconds of the whole 5 minutes it takes? qq


Hours of ah playing/ farming to go fly afew % faster, yet 5 minutes to lvl a new weapon is just unbearable!

[Kaedalmael]

That is my point, exactly. Cloth armor, in and of itself, does not need to have a substantial amount of physical damage mitigation. All things being equal, with nothing but physical armor to protect a body, plate should be about three to four times as effective (well, that's my opinion anyway).

I know what you mean. I think it might be a bit harder for a melee to kill a caster with this that it can already be, since not only can most casters manage to get away from a melee with movement spells(blink, demonic teleport, etc) and snares(frost nova), once a melee gets to the caster, their physical damage is going to be reduced by cloth armor also(And then you gotta consider caster shield spells, too)? Doesn't seem to be quite right to me. So far though, that's probably the only stat issue I have with the changes. Also, plate melee vs leather/mail melee... I thought their higher amounts of dodge from agility were what their mitigation was against plate?



EDIT: Forgot to throw in, this is only considering that the shrunken difference between armor types isn't going to be as significant as I'm reading into it.

[Baaadum]

They said Ele Shamans and Moonkins would use Spirit instead of Hit (really lazy change imo), but what about casters and shadow priests?

I disagree. This will allow healers/dps hybrids to become more versatile like they should've been. No more,
"we need another dps/healers. Can you do that?"
"lol no I need more dps/healer gear."

And, for the record, my main used to be a resto druid. It was the biggest bitch to get a boomkin set. I would have to wait for 24 other people to get geared before I could have a shot. I cleared the raid content... why can't I have fun in different specs?

Anyhow, my question is why Shadow Priests aren't included in this spirit-hit conversion.

[Brookes]

lazy ass hats holy shit. weapon skill was what? one swing per lvl till you like within 50 lvls to cap? oh no thats so hard!

its your own fualt you didnt buy a a green 2h with a less than 2 sec attack speed to cut down maybe 30 seconds of the whole 5 minutes it takes? qq


Hours of ah playing/ farming to go fly afew % faster, yet 5 minutes to lvl a new weapon is just unbearable!

So you're saying you prefer having to do more work? Or you're just bitter that new people will have it easier? Either way your anger sustains me.

[DSRilk]

I did not understand this change personally, would like anyone who understand it better to explain please

Under the new system, all stats will be useful the more you have - just like crit is now. However, tanks must be un-crit'able and the only way to do that was to hit 535/540 in defense. So instead of saying, "you must get defense to 540 and then take stats you like," you can now say, "take what stats you like." This just makes it a lot easier to guarantee you're at the right defense score at any level without having to calculate it and constantly balance the stat at each level. In short, it just makes gearing tanks (especially at levels 1 - 80) less annoying.

[Raith]

lazy ass hats holy shit. weapon skill was what? one swing per lvl till you like within 50 lvls to cap? oh no thats so hard!

its your own fualt you didnt buy a a green 2h with a less than 2 sec attack speed to cut down maybe 30 seconds of the whole 5 minutes it takes? qq

I agree! weapon skill leveling was unique, intuitive, interesting, made perfect sense, totally not boring and just down right fun!

It's not about it being hard. I don't know about you but i play games for fun and weapon skill leveling is not fun.

[Fojos]

tbh when reading threw this it only seems wow just got that much retard friendly, now instead of deciding what gear you want you will prety much be limited to what was "designed" for you.

With the removal of stats and literally smushing everything together it just seems abit dumb. The only thing left in wrath was making gear choices now its prety much set out for you...

sure there will be stat changing and crap but honestly half this stuff seems really dumb.

What choices? Most use spreadsheets and similar things to decide gear. Don't try to act like you actually do any of the thinking.

Good to see this game can still be dumbed down. Dont think me or any of my friends will be renewing. Bring out SC2 already!

You're stupid. Good riddance.

World of Retardcraft.

For those who never remembered number 540 we remove defence.

Yeah, because keeping your defense above 540 was very hard.

The only thing defense does is make tanks a lot more tedious to gear up at lower levels of gear.

lazy ass hats holy shit. weapon skill was what? one swing per lvl till you like within 50 lvls to cap? oh no thats so hard!

its your own fualt you didnt buy a a green 2h with a less than 2 sec attack speed to cut down maybe 30 seconds of the whole 5 minutes it takes? qq


Hours of ah playing/ farming to go fly afew % faster, yet 5 minutes to lvl a new weapon is just unbearable!

Stop embarassing yourself. Weapon skill didn't make sense. Just going out to hit mobs for 2 hours (or more, that's what it takes for 1-400, the last points take a long time).
It wasn't interesting gameplay, it was stupid gameplay.

[Kryptiki]

I know what you mean. I think it might be a bit harder for a melee to kill a caster with this that it can already be, since not only can most casters manage to get away from a melee with movement spells(blink, demonic teleport, etc) and snares(frost nova), once a melee gets to the caster, their physical damage is going to be reduced by cloth armor also? Doesn't seem to be quite right to me. So far though, that's probably the only stat issue I have with the changes. Also, plate melee vs leather/mail melee... I thought their higher amounts of dodge from agility were what their mitigation was against plate?

I didn't even think of the agility issue. Although, the dodge gained from agility, per point, will be reduced, so that should come out to about even. I really only take issue with this stat change from a philosophical/theoretical point of view, I'm sure that my plate wearers will hit like a dump truck full of rhinoceri going downhill. Hopefully.

[Brookes]

Under the new system, all stats will be useful the more you have - just like crit is now. However, tanks must be un-crit'able and the only way to do that was to hit 535/540 in defense. So instead of saying, "you must get defense to 540 and then take stats you like," you can now say, "take what stats you like." This just makes it a lot easier to guarantee you're at the right defense score at any level without having to calculate it and constantly balance the stat at each level. In short, it just makes gearing tanks (especially at levels 1 - 80) less annoying.

No more tank getting 1 shot on hard modes because he didn't think only having 537 defense would come back to haunt him.

[treebus]

One thing that bugs me is the change to how tanks will become crit immune by stance/presence/aura/bear change. This will mean if a tank dies in a raid, any of the plate dps or druid will change form and tank stuff? I did not understand this change personally, would like anyone who understand it better to explain please

This also concerns me... hopefully bosses will hit hard enough that the lack of avoidance/(not as gimped but still slightly)gimped health pool is unhealable pretty quickly. Keep in mind though, that currently bosses only crit 5.6% of the time anyway. A dps would on average take 18 hits before getting crit... depending on the boss this can be as long as 43 seconds. In your experience, how many times have you survived a boss for 43 seconds with tanks dead and a dps holding aggro?

[Raith]

Anyhow, my question is why Shadow Priests aren't included in this spirit-hit conversion.

Because they'll share gear with mages and warlocks? The reason balance and elemental have this conversion is because there will only be healing leather and healing mail, so to make it DPS gear the healing stat which is useless for them (spirit) will become a dps stat. Shadow priests won't need spirit gear.