Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

[Kaedalmael]

Rage is already affected by haste, e.g., the faster you swing the more rage you're getting, no?
Rogues already have crazy regen on their energy, although I think it might make feral a little easier.
Noone can really say if hunters will need it or not, since noone knows exactly how focus will work yet. Supposedly it'll regen twice as fast as energy, with most spells costing ~40-60, so maybe it won't be as annoying as playing an energy class.

And how can I forget beloved dk's? Faster runes is interesting, wonder how that would work with imp uh presence...

True, the faster you swing, the more rage you get[EDIT: I meant by the faster you swing, the more often you hit, so the more rage you get]. But it's not a huge difference. With 2h weapons, you tend to fill up your rage bar in just a couple hits anyways, especially the more damage you do with them, which is where having endless rage due to top gear comes in. So, haste is generally considered a crap stat currently by warriors. Could see it possibly helping tanks some, but since they're generating rage through being hit also anyways, still probably not a big help. And I think the devs said they do want haste to be more beneficial than it is.

[Brookes]

A lot of healers are simply chaining their biggest heals because they have so much haste and so much mana that it doesn't matter. So their current rotation looks like:

GCD1: Big Heal
GCD2: Big Heal
GCD3: Big Heal
GCD4: Big Heal

And for nine out of ten fights, they're fine. Granted this is more true for tank healers than raid healers, raid healers usually throw in a group heal every five or six GCDs whenever it's off CD. Not all healers heal this way, the good one certainly don't, but huge mana pools and insane haste make it a workable tactic that Blizz is trying to get rid of.

So good healers don't cast 5 globals worth of hots inbetween a 6 second cooldown? Guess I've been playing wrong.

[Grimraven]

they remove armor penetration from gear and give us haste instead - nice!
how is that supposed to be good for a warrior?
oh wait, we are tanks, I get it.

soooo glad I am not gonna be playing cataclysm

[Elektrik]

Seem like good changes to me. To all the people out there who say they know exactly what gear is better than other gear, that is because someone else told you what stats are better than the others, and what value they hold. Some even go as far as plugging their character and gear into a program that tells them what is an upgrade.

Having someone else tell you EP values for your class and progression level isn't "hardcore". Trying to eliminate the need to do these things in order to perform at the top level for your class is a step in the right direction for sure. There will still be some bads out there who think that 10 crit is better than 20 strength because they see more BIG NUMBERS, but the average good player won't need to look at someone else's math to decide if 30 ArP is better than 20 strength.

Say you understand the current stats all you want, but the simple fact is that if you are striving to do the most damage you can do / heal as well as you possibly can / survive the most attacks as possible, and you aren't min/maxing with EP values or a simulator, then you aren't doing as well as you could be doing. This is exactly what they want to avoid - not eliminate because that's impossible, but they don't want everybody running to someone elses math to keep up.

they remove armor penetration from gear and give us haste instead - nice!
how is that supposed to be good for a warrior?
oh wait, we are tanks, I get it.

soooo glad I am not gonna be playing cataclysm

It's leveling gear. Who cares. You could level just fine if you bought some greens off the AH - I don't think a little more haste is going to prevent you from killing a mob with 20k health.

[Kryptiki]

True, the faster you swing, the more rage you get. But it's not a huge difference. With 2h weapons, you tend to fill up your rage bar in just a couple hits anyways, especially the more damage you do with them, which is where having endless rage due to top gear comes in. So, haste is generally considered a crap stat currently by warriors. Could see it possibly helping tanks some, but since they're generating rage through being hit also anyways, still probably not a big help. And I think the devs said they do want haste to be more beneficial than it is.

I would love for haste to be more beneficial to a my warrior, in any capacity. I think that the infinite rage scenario due to awesome gear is going to be addressed, yet again, by further rage normalization, which is poopy for us warriors. However, that will in all likelihood drive haste to something to be desired.

[Grimraven]

It's leveling gear. Who cares. You could level just fine if you bought some greens off the AH - I don't think a little more haste is going to prevent you from killing a mob with 20k health.

noone gives a shit about questing
it's dps meters while raiding is where the fun begins

[DrgnDancer]

I might be wrong, but isn't that the same thing that happens each expansion? I.E. you'll still need 17% hit rating to hit a lvl 88, or what have you, but that 17% will take around 500 hit rating instead of the ~300 that's needed now.

I got the impression that it was more like (using WOTLK raids and levels) bosses in Naxx will act like they are level 83, and thus you need 17% hit rating to hit them, but bosses in ICC will act as if they are level 85 so you need 26% (or whatever) hit rating to hit them.

[Grimraven]

I would love for haste to be more beneficial to a my warrior, in any capacity. I think that the infinite rage scenario due to awesome gear is going to be addressed, yet again, by further rage normalization, which is poopy for us warriors. However, that will in all likelihood drive haste to something to be desired.

Can you link your wowarmory profile so I could laugh at your warrior?
If you go for haste as a warrior you are terrible

[Elektrik]

noone gives a shit about questing
it's dps meters while raiding is where the fun begins

Right. So what do the stats on your level 80 gear matter when you hit 85? lol

[Kaedalmael]

Can you link your wowarmory profile so I could laugh at your warrior?
If you go for haste as a warrior you are terrible

He didn't say he goes for haste currently, he says he would love for it to be more useful. Pay attention.

[blupp]

what people forget is that there will some lava rivers running through old content, so think twice before you quit.

[Brookes]

I got the impression that it was more like (using WOTLK raids and levels) bosses in Naxx will act like they are level 83, and thus you need 17% hit rating to hit them, but bosses in ICC will act as if they are level 85 so you need 26% (or whatever) hit rating to hit them.

Hm...if that does turn out to be the case, I can see where they're coming from. As gear gets better you have bigger numbers on gear...so it might be to prevent you from starting out with 2 pieces of gear that total 50 hit, and ending up only needing 1 piece with the same hit on it.

[Kryptiki]

Can you link your wowarmory profile so I could laugh at your warrior?
If you go for haste as a warrior you are terrible

dude, read before you write. I would love it if haste did something useful for my warrior. I don't stack, look for, or intentionally gear haste. I tank, so haste is right out the damn window, and this is all speculation about an expansion where we have seen nothing in terms of effectiveness of stats.

[Grimraven]

Right. So what do the stats on your level 80 gear matter when you hit 85? lol

that's not the point
Of course we would get lvl 85 gear but it won't have armor penetration on it.
It will have haste on it instead and well critical strike rating assuming you are hit and expertise capped.

That is boring!
Plus, haste is TERRIBLE for warrior!!!

[Brookes]

what people forget is that there will some lava rivers running through old content, so think twice before you quit.

this

[Silenteyes]

nice... so all armor pen will be haste and haste will affect melee more? I never liked haste anyway

[Elektrik]

that's not the point
Of course we would get lvl 85 gear but it won't have armor penetration on it.
It will have haste on it instead and well critical strike rating assuming you are hit and expertise capped.

That is boring!
Plus, haste is TERRIBLE for warrior!!!

And spirit is terrible for resto shamans. Guess what. Things are changing.

You whining about haste is like a shaman coming in here and saying "BUT SPIRIT IS TERRIBLE FOR SHAMANS!!".

[Brookes]

that's not the point
Of course we would get lvl 85 gear but it won't have armor penetration on it.
It will have haste on it instead and well critical strike rating assuming you are hit and expertise capped.

That is boring!
Plus, haste is TERRIBLE for warrior!!!

Ofc it is. I think they established that already. But what you fail to realize is that maybe, just maybe, since they're taking away a best stat, a NEW stat might become the NEW best stat. I know it's hard to grasp but stay with me, maybe haste won't be...bad! Or something to that effect.

Listing from topic to topic, have they gone indepth about mastery?

[Grimraven]

dude, read before you write. I would love it if haste did something useful for my warrior. I don't stack, look for, or intentionally gear haste. I tank, so haste is right out the damn window, and this is all speculation about an expansion where we have seen nothing in terms of effectiveness of stats.

apologies

And now, how will the haste be more effective for warrior?
There is no way it can be more effective.

What, do you think they will make haste affect your global cooldown timers? No way in the world that is happening.

Besides that, it will affect your melee swing timers... WOW .... that is so ...TERRIBLE!

[Barook]

At least we know now what happens to ArP.

I also welcome the change of gem colors - blue was absolutely terrible outside of Stamina.

But the new Spirit design for Elemental Shamans and Moonkins sounds kinda flawed, considering they share gear with healers.