Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

[Zorbak]

So basically Blizzard are making the current stats more equally valuable, moving away from the stack on stat the rest are useless mentality we have now. With scaling hit and expertise requirements, this will add to complexity in gearing, imagine if you have gear that has enough hit for the first tier of raiding, but for the second tier you'll need more hit, you'd have the option to reforge, gem or enchant gear differently to get this new hit cap. This brings a lot of flexibility and more personal choices when picking gear.

[Grimraven]

Oh, I don't know. Maybe strength.

No!!! because strength will already be on the gear so the only thing that you can change is what equip your gear will have which is .... crit or haste(terrible so obviously not) which leaves crit ONLY!

[Kryptiki]

because there WILL NOT be anything else to use.
you will gear for hit and expertise till you are capped and then the only choice you will have will be critical strike... WOW that's a lot of options right there

so what will you take?
Critical strike or .... well... critical strike?

Actually, I like this post. With reforging we will be able to shift around some stats. So, given that a warrior has a lot of hit and adequate expertise we are left with three options: balance haste and crit, move all of our crit to haste, or move all of our haste to crit. I can see if someone just made the hit cap that they would want to go for a balance. If someone is very much over the special hit cap (talking in current numbers only) where they only miss about 5% of their white swings which would be more beneficial? More attacks or harder hitting ones? If someone could reach the auto-attack crit cap would it be worth it? Just spit balling here.

[Brookes]

No, no and NO!

Having armor penetration in talents is just not enough, because you cannot cap it and thus it's not as good of a stat.

Removing Attack power from items and making agility mean nothing to plate users will make you wear plate which has TONS of stamina which DOES not improve your DPS ! So in result you lose.

Unless there's a talent that makes stamina=damage. Or idk, the crit you get from it. Or maybe you'll realize the change was to get warriors to stop taking gear with agi from agi classes, just because it has a shiney ap/arpen stat on it.

Basically what you're saying is, if you can't have all the cookies, you don't want any?
Guess that means you'll go to bed hungry :-\

[Grimraven]

Actually, I like this post. With reforging we will be able to shift around some stats. So, given that a warrior has a lot of hit and adequate expertise we are left with three options: balance haste and crit, move all of our crit to haste, or move all of our haste to crit. I can see if someone just made the hit cap that they would want to go for a balance. If someone is very much over the special hit cap (talking in current numbers only) where they only miss about 5% of their white swings which would be more beneficial? More attacks or harder hitting ones? If someone could reach the auto-attack crit cap would it be worth it? Just spit balling here.

of course you will reach crit cap sooner or later which will forcce you to choose haste which is once again TERRIBLE!

[Deleted]

My concern is, given that Restoration Druids share gear with Balance Druids and Elemental Shaman share gear with Restoration Druid, does this mean that there is no gear competition for cloth healing items (i.e it goes straight to the priest) and plate healing? Maybe this is just a knee jerk reaction as a tree, but this hardly feels fair.

[Kimbur]

Weapon Skill gone!
Awesome, and awesome about Spirit ^_^!

[Kryptiki]

of course you will reach crit cap sooner or later which will forcce you to choose haste which is once again TERRIBLE!

I fail to see how being at 70-76% crit and then having to hit more often is bad. Call me provincial.

[Grimraven]

Unless there's a talent that makes stamina=damage. Or idk, the crit you get from it. Or maybe you'll realize the change was to get warriors to stop taking gear with agi from agi classes, just because it has a shiney ap/arpen stat on it.

Basically what you're saying is, if you can't have all the cookies, you don't want any?
Guess that means you'll go to bed hungry :-\

First, I was passing on leather until all the rogues/ferals get it. But once they do, I roll on it because it is simply better than plate.

Now you won't even have this option - fine.

Second, they are going away with armor penetration because oh my god it was such a complicated stat that ruined a game for people that are clueless about this game anyways. So now you are stuck with 2 stats - haste or crit where haste is terrible so you get to go with Crit.

In conclusion, only plate gear and only critical strike, might as well just give us no option at all, wow, that is so much fun I can't wait... to quit this game

[imabanana]

My concern is, given that Restoration Druids share gear with Balance Druids and Elemental Shaman share gear with Restoration Druid, does this mean that there is no gear competition for cloth healing items (i.e it goes straight to the priest) and plate healing? Maybe this is just a knee jerk reaction as a tree, but this hardly feels fair.

Yes, sharing items with ONE other spec isn't really fair, when clothies have to share it with so many others... (btw : i'm moonkin, and I don't mind this change)

[Deleted]

No, no and NO!

Having armor penetration in talents is just not enough, because you cannot cap it and thus it's not as good of a stat.

How do you know you can't cap it? Have you seen how the Mastery system will work in practice and know that Warriors won't be given ArP as their Mastery stat and won't be able to cap it?

Removing Attack power from items and making agility mean nothing to plate users will make you wear plate which has TONS of stamina which DOES not improve your DPS ! So in result you lose.

So removing attack power will make you actually use the items that you're supposed to be using? Having plate wearers using agi gear was a cock up from the stat bloating that came about in TBC and WotLK and is something Blizzard want to stop. Suffice to say plate gear will have plenty of stats on them to increase your dps and we won't have the ridiculous situation of plate wearers taking gear off feral druids and rogues.

No!!! because strength will already be on the gear so the only thing that you can change is what equip your gear will have which is .... crit or haste(terrible so obviously not) which leaves crit ONLY!

Once you get strength and stamina out of the way plate dps gear will have exp, hit, mastery, crit and haste on it, that sounds like quite a lot of choice to me. In fact it sounds almost exactly the same amount of choice as we have on gear now. And again you have no idea how haste will work out once the Cata changes go live so have no idea whether or not it will be terrible.

[bregtan]

So, they simplify stats and makes things less messy.

Then they completely mess up hit rating by making the hit cap change for every tier of content!? wtf?

Now:
Guild chat: "What's the hit cap for my class?"

After:
Guild chat:
"What's the hit cap?"
"Depends..."
"Huh?"
"In T11 content, it is 567. in T12 content it's 622, in T13 it is 666..."
"So, I need to have one set of gear for each content with different hit caps? "
"Yep. And remember to switch around depending on what instance you go to"
"Great. Glad they simplified stats"

[Deleted]

Yes, sharing items with ONE other spec isn't really fair, when clothies have to share it with so many others... (btw : i'm moonkin, and I don't mind this change)

You misunderstand. My concern is for 2 specs (Priests) and 1 spec (Holy Paladins) having undisputed access to gear unless Blizzard expect Restoration Druids and Shaman to be fighting for cloth. At which point, the gear dominance healers capable of wearing plate have is exasperated.

[Brookes]

I fail to see how being at 70-76% crit and then having to hit more often is bad. Call me provincial.

There is somewhat of a "crit cap". The closer you get to the hit cap the higher it is though. So maybe white hit cap will be more important.

[Brookes]

[blizzquote="Ghostcrawler;http://blue.mmo-champion.com/29/23425636414-cataclysm-stat--system-changes.html"]
There is a small Mastery bonus for wearing "your" gear. So a Balance druid who takes cloth will be essentially giving up free stats. Sometimes that may be worth it to them (just as sometimes it's worth it for a Resto druid to take that piece of +hit gear), but often times it won't be worth it especially if it's an upgrade for you.

If mastery proves to be useful, maybe it will prevent pallies from being mistaken for priests.

[Kryptiki]

There is somewhat of a "crit cap". The closer you get to the hit cap the higher it is though. So maybe white hit cap will be more important.

I am aware of the auto-attack crit cap, which would be 100-glancing blows-miss rate given no crit depression. At current levels of gear and stat scaling with reforging I'm sure some warrior could reach that cap. Then what? Haste I guess, unless we can reforge it into strength, which would be bad-assed.

[Deleted]

First, I was passing on leather until all the rogues/ferals get it. But once they do, I roll on it because it is simply better than plate.

Which as I said previously is a ridiculous situation. Plate wearers should be looking to use plate items, not leather gear that has ended up better because of bad stat/itemization decisions Blizz have made along the way.

Second, they are going away with armor penetration because oh my god it was such a complicated stat that ruined a game for people that are clueless about this game anyways. So now you are stuck with 2 stats - haste or crit where haste is terrible so you get to go with Crit.

Actually yes it is a complicated stat whether or not you're clued up on the game. It's not something you can simply look at and decide whether it's an upgrade or not, especially when in cases it relies on other stats having reached a certain point before it changes from a dps loss to a gain. It forces people to go and run gear choices through spreadsheets and simulators rather than actually making the decision themselves. But it's removal doesn't mean that people are left with 2 choices, if armor pen is so valuable to you now it's likely that Mastery will provide ArP in Cata so the mastery stat will be something you'll be looking to get on gear.

In conclusion, only plate gear and only critical strike, might as well just give us no option at all, wow, that is so much fun I can't wait... to quit this game

No, as has been pointed out several times your gear will have just as many differing stats on them in Cata as they do now. The only thing that will really change will likely be the need to stack one stat at the exception of all the others as is the case with several classes/specs now.

[Brookes]

I am aware of the auto-attack crit cap, which would be 100-glancing blows-miss rate given no crit depression. At current levels of gear and stat scaling with reforging I'm sure some warrior could reach that cap. Then what? Haste I guess, unless we can reforge it into strength, which would be bad-assed.

never know, the only limitation thus far is that you can't turn stam into dps stats. dump 60 crit and 50 haste for 110more str (obviously different numbers but you see the idea)

[Deleted]

If mastery proves to be useful, maybe it will prevent pallies from being mistaken for priests.

All I can say to the above is, yuck. That is a horrific solution and will only lead to the encouragement of wearing any piece of your gear type. At least Blizzard will be effectively bringing in their own Gear Score system with Mastery. The more Mastery you have the better your gear for your spec.

It still doesn't solve the issue of places on loot tables for only one spec out of 30.

[Gathami-Ettrig]

If you are a Balance druid or Elemental shaman:

• You will still share gear with Restoration druids and shaman.
• Your gear will have Spirit on it. It won’t have Hit on it.
• You will have a talent that converts Spirit to Hit. We will adjust talents accordingly so that you want about as much Spirit as, say, a warlock wants Hit.
• Hit on rings and other such gear will still benefit you.
• Raid buffs will no longer boost Spirit, so you shouldn’t find yourself unexpectedly over the Hit cap because of buffs.

About time we get some attention