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  1. #421

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by hammybiter
    Compensation?? Are you serious, they should have never been to able to effectively use that spell in the first place on lvl 80's..
    mana cost is the same


    I think with all the "equalizing" with gear...mages should get plate..... ;D ;D

  2. #422

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimraven
    However, they cannot make plate more attractive than leather simply because they put too much stamina on plate and THAT is what they should be fixing.
    Seriously? Read the changes instead of whining for a minute...my God.

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    [blizzquote="Eyonix;http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/23425636414-cataclysm-stat--system-changes.html"]
    Stamina - Because of the way we will be assigning Strength, Agility, and Intellect, non-plate wearers will end up with more Stamina than before. Health pools will be much closer between plate-wearers and other classes.

  3. #423
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by VanishO2
    So the skinny rogue and shamman are as tough and strong as a warrior/dk? And that's is not retarded? So they just use leather because of preference now, not because plate is very heavy...

    For real... kinda retarded that they'll just keep doing it wrong with plate dps classes... guess they never got and will never get why they use leather/mail instead of plate... reading all the stuff, you'll just see plate dps classes loosing stuff without any compensation (at least on gear, maybe on talents?) while leather/mail dpsers are just breaking equal if not better (thanks to atk power to more agi AND sta conversion) than they're currently. Strength will never be the same as Agility as long as Agi give more to their classes than Strength gives to the DPS portion of plate classes. That's why Agi rings (agi+sta+crit+atk power+other useful stat combos like hit+exp or hit+haste or arp+exp, etc...) are always better than Str rings (str+sta+SAME crit as the crit from Agi ring+exp OR hit OR haste OR arp...).

    And they said once that they think that plate users should have more sta than any other dps class... lol looks like not...

    But no compensation? Retarded... and still saying that most of their gear will still be loaded with stamina instead of useful dps stats...

    Only good thing for now is for DPS DKs using haste in their gear for rune regen... other than that...
    Except the quote said they will most likely reduce the amount of crit from Agility, which is really all anyone goes Agil > Str for. Most of the time, plate goes into mail/leather for ArP as well, which is going away, so they will buff accordingly. I would honestly either see Agility get next to no crit, or str offer a little more AP than Agility would, especially since all plate wearers see ArP as a high priority stat except for pallys and a few specs among DK's. Give them the benefit of the doubt for now, I really don't think they will screw over all the plate wearers. Hell, it may end up that leather wearers get screwed more than you do.

    Are people always this quick to judge stuff that isn't even happening yet?
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  4. #424

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by whowherewhat?
    get your achievements quick!
    I guess it'll be turned into a feast of strength anyway...

  5. #425
    The Lightbringer Haidaes's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamslam

    Are people always this quick to judge stuff that isn't even happening yet?
    For 5.5 years now, yes.

  6. #426

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille
    Stamina - Because of the way we will be assigning Strength, Agility, and Intellect, non-plate wearers will end up with more Stamina than before. Health pools will be much closer between plate-wearers and other classes.
    I hope Shamans get a decent hp boost. I'm so tired of the healer having to babysit me.

  7. #427
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes
    For 5.5 years now, yes.
    Duh, how could I forget...this is WoW's community we're talking about. :P
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  8. #428
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    I feel that this is all being taken a bit extremely, these changes may cause a lot of imbalances during Beta, and the beginning of launch, but balance is sure to be restored to what it is now and better as the expansion goes on. From what I can see, some of these changes allow the player to get gear based on the way the play, to their styles. I can kind of see an attempt to remove the ideal of "There is a cookie-cutter spec for everything" mentality; which I'm glad for.

    Reforging, Path of the Titans, the removal of percentage increase talents; they all seem to support a philosophy of customization/individuality between characters. Unlike now in WotLK where you get smashed for not having this talent that increases your damage by 3%, or stacking haste gems as a Death Knight (Yes those are horrible things to do now, I know). Cataclysm, as I see it, will make those, a little more acceptable, especially the talent bit, since those won't exist anymore, and haste will hasten resource recovery for Hunters, Rogues, Death Knights, and Warriors.

    As long as I can see a possibility for balance, I can't see how these stat changes can be worse than what the stats are now, really.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  9. #429

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lassy
    Hahaha.

    Sweet, I'll get to tank in dps gear! Healers don't care about running oom and I'll bet *anyone* that they won't care about running oom after the rating conversions.

    Hence, we'll be tanking the everything in WotLK in 4.0 in dps gear.

    Awesome.
    Because avoidance has absolutely no effect on tanking, right?

  10. #430
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius
    I feel that this is all being taken a bit extremely, these changes may cause a lot of imbalances during Beta, and the beginning of launch, but balance is sure to be restored to what it is now and better as the expansion goes on. From what I can see, some of these changes allow the player to get gear based on the way the play, to their styles. I can kind of see an attempt to remove the ideal of "There is a cookie-cutter spec for everything" mentality; which I'm glad for.

    Reforging, Path of the Titans, the removal of percentage increase talents; they all seem to support a philosophy of customization/individuality between characters. Unlike now in WotLK where you get smashed for not having this talent that increases your damage by 3%, or stacking haste gems as a Death Knight (Yes those are horrible things to do now, I know). Cataclysm, as I see it, will make those, a little more acceptable, especially the talent bit, since those won't exist anymore, and haste will hasten resource recovery for Hunters, Rogues, Death Knights, and Warriors.

    As long as I can see a possibility for balance, I can't see how these stat changes can be worse than what the stats are now, really.
    Pretty much this. Cata changes will actually bring so much more diversity to the classes. Do you stack Int/Agil/Str, or stack haste to lower time between attacks (however that is working)? You've got the required talents, go have fun with these remaining 5-7 on whatever you like. Reforging/Mastery/Path just speak for themselves, all allowing a somewhat unique take on your character's stats. I just can't understand how any of this can be bad.../shrug

    And honestly, this should make balance so much easier. Blizzard won't have to worry about nerfing 1 of 8/9 stats on a class to bring them in line, now they can just simply tweak a mastery/spell w/o worrying about how it affects so many stats.
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  11. #431

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalman
    This seriously disgusts me. They want everything available to everyone and everything to be easier. Its fun deciding what gear to get and what might be better. I don't want to automatically look at gear for 2 seconds and be able to say, "That is better, 100% sure, no questioning it." Stats in this game are not complicated. I'm sorry, but if you think that it's complicated, then your bad, or have never talked to anybody about your class. I knew what I needed of my stats and what was good before any patches usually come out, or right after a patch.
    If anything, this is making the game LESS fun imo...
    Because gemming for ArP in basically every slot and rolling on gear with more ArP as a combat rogue (replace ArP with haste if mutilate) or gemming completely Int as a (HL) holy pally were really complex and exciting decisions...

    Most classes and specs prioritized one stat after attaining necessary caps anyways. Not to mention they are also making hit and expertise caps harder to reach and introducing mastery and changing haste to have a more noticeable effect.

    Explain to me how they are making it less fun when they basically had several stats that did pretty much the same thing. And then explain to me how the haste change for example is less fun in actual gameplay (where it matters) than say spending 5-10 minutes with wow minimised checking it on a spreadsheet or RAWR only to find the gear you rolled on and won against someone who needed it really wasn't an upgrade.

    ArP was basically AP scaled differently, Haste increased autoattack (so exciting!) damage and a proc rates (which have an ICD anyways), AP was basically strength or agi without crit rating, parry, etc, etc, etc.

    Gear choice will be just as fun with less of the bullshit. End of.

  12. #432

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Hmmm. I went through 12 pages and only saw a handful of comments on the tanking changes. As a tank myself I have noticed some possible issues with the new changes. With the removal of Defense and increases in stam across the board it seems like tanking might be possible for non-tank-specced plate wearers. A few people mentioned the possibility of being uncrittable designated to the relevant tanking talent trees and also the shortage of tanks for randoms as an impetus for these changes. Are there sources for that or is it pure speculation? I haven't really done any research into the xpac so I wouldn't know. Thanks.

  13. #433
    The Patient loftus's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    i've currently been off and on (mostly off) of wow for the past 6 months or so. i was hardcore about 2 years ago, then with WOTLK i became slightly less hardcore and became more of an average player, then i went casual, and now i renew my account every 3 or so months, play for a week then close it again.

    the gear thing was really making the game a headache for me, with too many stats being too all over the place.

    Reading this post, which sums up changes like:

    mastery
    haste change
    more health for everyone
    no more stupid 'weapon skill'

    among others, make me 100% sure im gonna pick up cata when it comes out just to see what its like. it feels like vanilla, BC and WOTLK were blizz testing stuff and cata is gonna be like, 'this is how we want the game to be' and to be honest, i think its going to be brilliant.

    For now ill leave my account de-activated... roll on cata! 8)
    Quote Originally Posted by Voidmaster
    Generally it is not the "hardcore" players whining about these changes, they are just enjoying the hard mode content etc and most of them couldn't give a rat's ass about who wears what kind of epic gear.

    The whiners are usually little scrubs that want to sound "cool" to other little scrubs, so they claim they have cleared everyting and how "zomg easy" it was, while in reality they are usually still stuck on their blue/naxx10 geared characters, with no gems and enchants on their gear and no clue how to play their class.

  14. #434
    Mechagnome Rayleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Poonboy
    This shit just makes the game so much easier for the 10 year old players who destroy the game. Clap clap clap Blizzard, GJ once again.
    /agree
    "The best way to predict the future is to invent it." - Alan Kay
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  15. #435
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacelord
    Hmmm. I went through 12 pages and only saw a handful of comments on the tanking changes. As a tank myself I have noticed some possible issues with the new changes. With the removal of Defense and increases in stam across the board it seems like tanking might be possible for non-tank-specced plate wearers. A few people mentioned the possibility of being uncrittable designated to the relevant tanking talent trees and also the shortage of tanks for randoms as an impetus for these changes. Are there sources for that or is it pure speculation? I haven't really done any research into the xpac so I wouldn't know. Thanks.
    It was mentioned a few times in one of the threads on gen forums a while back, talking about how it would be easier to find tanks in Cata. The thing is, it really depends on the difficulty. If ilvl boosts the same way it did in LK and/or heroics are a cakewalk, it would be entirely possible for some DPS to tank an instance. I highly doubt any random DPS DK will be able to walk into a raid though and be like "its cool I'll put frost pres on" and be able to tank it. I see avoidance/block/dodge becoming even more important stats. That and a tanking spec would give you more masteries that are tank-ish.

    I do recall Blizzard mentioning that bosses would probably hit harder since stamina would be through the roof, so I see the tanking stats as being mandatory for anything halfway difficult tbh.
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  16. #436

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by treebus
    Gearing now is NOT interesting. Sure it may be complicated, but people just make spreadsheets. What I hope to see more of in cata is: "Because of my current gear setup, haste is better for me than crit". Now I get too more pieces, and suddenly "With those upgrades, expertise is now my best stat". That would be an interesting system. Stack ArPen to cap then stack agi... that's not an interesting system.

    Getting rid of a stat (SP) that scales directly with ilvl is not dumbing things down. Getting rid of AP when every class always wants Str = X AP = Y Agi at all levels of gearing is not dumbing things down.

    It may be that the game is simpler in Cata, it may be that it's more complicated. The information in this blue post isn't enough to say either, but I'm inclined to believe it will be more towards more interesting at the very least.
    Yes. Although, I'm hoping that the gear stat changes move us away from "You gear this way because it is THE best DPS for your spec" and more towards "You gear this way because you play your spec THAT way".

    Take rogues: All rogues want Agility. If you stack crit you can compete with rogues that stack haste. Both of those rogues can compete with a rogue that stacks Mastery, and all three of them compete with rogues that stack all three to some degree.

    The Mut rogue that's packing a SP weapon because of "lolnaturedamage" gets laughed at and all is well with the world.

  17. #437
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mortalman
    Quote from: Poonboy on March 02, 2010, 12:34:49 am
    This shit just makes the game so much easier for the 10 year old players who destroy the game. Clap clap clap Blizzard, GJ once again.

    /agree
    If I could interject... aren't there already 10 year olds playing the game? And making stat changes makes the population of 10 year olds go up how? And wouldn't making the game easier make those 10 year olds better and more tolerable? Your logic is flawed, next idiot?
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  18. #438
    Pit Lord Shamslam's Avatar
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    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Malthurius
    If I could interject... aren't there already 10 year olds playing the game? And making stat changes makes the population of 10 year olds go up how? And wouldn't making the game easier make those 10 year olds better and more tolerable? Your logic is flawed, next idiot?
    /shake hand

    Sort of on topic to this post...In my 4 years of WoW, I always preferred (pre)-teenagers to older adults. It was always the adults who would bitch and moan first, and (for the most part) the lil kids would just roll with it and play this game the way it should be...as something fun! Isn't that just crazy!
    I once had a character named "Clamslam" but Blizzard deemed it inappropriate.
    Retired from WoW: February 19, 2011. It was fun Blizz.

  19. #439

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    ITT: people with 2nd grade reading comprehensions.
    Dk- http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Mannoroth&cn=Raivious

  20. #440

    Re: Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

    Quote Originally Posted by wooshiewoo
    You say these changes "disgust" you, but you don't realise what this means for Blizzard. Along with the talent tree changes, they can successfully balance classes in a much more exact way. They can tune one stat without it create a cascade of implications for other stats.
    This 100% correct in every single way. See spirit and ArP (before 3.3) changes.

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