Cataclysm Stat & System Changes

[uka]

spirit on mail-caster-gear... hm.
i can deal with spirit->hit on pve gear, but will there be spirit on restoration and elemental pvp gear as well? ^^

[djsjr]

[blizzquote="Eyonix;http://blue.mmo-champion.com/1/23425636414-cataclysm-stat--system-changes.html"]
Resilience - This will only affect damage done by players and critical damage done by players. It will not impact crit chance, mana drains, or other such effects.

Woooh......crazy

[Zokten]

It's like changing the value of X in a formula, it's not like they're going to have to sit down and change every item manually.

Its really not that easy....

[javilionaire]

Can we have refunds on all the spells we've bought then? since spell ranks scale with level now

[Morning_star]

Don't get why casters will have spellpower on weapon and melèe their primary stat, so with buffs like bok the whole melèe stats will increase and spellpower on weapon will not get any benefit from it.

[javilionaire]

I'm going to miss spell power and the amount of mana we gain from intellect QQ.

[Delveddeep]

World of Retardcraft.


Now we finally make this game so ridiculously easy, every imbecile can look smart.
And, see, how many people in these 10 pages are exalted with changes. Probably had hard time remembering 540 defence...

Oh, god. That was beautiful. Why does every idiot screaming about how easy they're making the game type like an utter moron? I'm not big on correlation=causation, but I'm really starting to wonder.

Anyway, I play a hunter, I love min-maxing. I enjoy spending hours looking over spreadsheets, checking the math, running test dummy tests, etc.

If you can't see that things will be just as interesting after the changes, just how big a difference figuring out Haste to Energy plateaus and Mastery To CD reduction rotations (for those specs whose Mastery reduces cds like ret. Yes, it was already shown in the initial mastery screenshots, if you aren't keeping up, go be a moron screaming about the sky falling somewhere else) Well, then, I can't help you. You're just a moron who can't figure out math more complicated then Arp Cap=Gud. Most of the changes will make maximizing gear far more difficult. The increasing Hit Cap alone along tier progression may end up being my worst nightmare. Interestingly, if the percentage Hit needed doesn't increase, merely the rating needed per percentage (like happens now as you level) it'll make percentage Hit talents actually grow progressively more powerful over the course of an expansion instead of the opposite as is currently true. That's just one relatively minor change that will be easy to model as we get the chance to test the increased cap.

In short, to all the chicken littles screaming about the sky falling, please do like you've been threatening for the whole year you've been playing and cancel your accounts. You're bad at the game, and you should feel bad.

[Daemaro]

This.

Except the "less mana gained from int" change.

I like having an outrageously large mana pool as a Paladin

Well they didn't say you wouldn't have a huge mana pool. They just were saying keeping the mana per int ratio now would get messed up with how much int you'll have then.

[vissi the cruel]

I can understand why some people have issues with the stats changes, granted we haven't seen it in action at all, but i can see why people can be a little worried, but for the 5 years of playing wow i have meet no one that enjoys or thinks the weapon skill system was anyways good, i can see people getting upset over not being able to go to the trainer to train into 2h swords, but getting the skill up was never fun at all. anyone who is defending that part should be discarded as a troll with no right to talk bad about anything at all.

[Grimraven]

Most classes are stuck with 4 piece t10 and 1 piece of better 264 or higher gear atm. It has been this way since WotL came out, 4 pieces of tiered gear and 1 piece better gear for most classes and was even this way in TBC, xx amount of tiered pieces for bonus then rest BiS gear.

then how should it be?

Then you have BiS weapons and BiS trinkets, rings, necks etc etc. So what choice did you think you ever had? Not many at all is the correct answer.

you have to make correct gear choices before you get BiS gear because obtaining BiS gear is long process depending on luck for an item to drop and on luck to win the roll.

[Zargzak]

... having to go find a weapon trainer and then hit a mob numerous times before you could use a weapon type you hadn't used during levelling really made the game so much better and it's removal is a horrible simplification. Oh wait, no it's not, it's just the removal of a pointless time sink.

Please explain to me how having to go back to a class trainer every 2 levels is a good thing? Why shouldn't the fireball spell I learned at level 4 not become progressively more powerful as I level up? As with removing weapon skills all they are doing by removing the need to visit class trainers every 2 levels is removing a time sink. And anyway you're still going to have to visit class trainers every so often to learn actual new skills/spells.

The game itself is A FREAKING TIME SINK.
This is the idea. To spend time playing. Face it ffs. The game is a one huge time sink.

Omg, I must farm to be prepared for raiding. Omg, I must spend time leveling, let me level faster. Omg, it takes time to level weapon skill, remove it. Omg, heroics take fifteen minutes to clear, nerf them. Omg, I must visit my class trainer, remove spell ranks. Omg raiding takes time... omg everything take time...

What do you want game to be? A huge freaking red button that you press once a day and it drops full epic sets?

[Zargzak]

Oh, god. That was beautiful. Why does every idiot screaming about how easy they're making the game type like an utter moron?

Because English is my third language? Not even second, not talking about being native? And I'm still speaking better then half of US and UK kids?

Cheers for your ignorance by the way, it takes time to level such a skill and to make yourself look so stupid.

[Grimraven]

Seriously? Read the changes instead of whining for a minute...my God.

oh ok , so instead of making plate more attractive, they will just nerf leather and mail or am I reading this wrong?

[Mr. Casual]

Oh yea, those 35k disc priests really need more health.

So basicly they're nerfing plate and buffing everyone else... again.

^ ^ this is the feeling i got from the post. I play a warrior and im scared for pvp in cata. Being a warrior means big heavy armor and alot of health. now everybody gets great amor and more health and plate does less damage reduction. yay i hope there are talents in the warrior tree to make us feel like a WARRIOR again

[Grimraven]

Gear choices not being part of the games difficulty makes no sense. It means it requires no reasoning, intelligence or knowledge when deciding on how to gear your character. Knowledge is power, knowing something someone else doesn't about how to make your character better is an advantage you can gain on someone else through experience.

Make it so everyone knows whats the best removes all choice since there is no choice as everyone knows whats the best...

Exactly!

There are ppl that just roll on higher ilvl gear cuz omg it has to be an upgrade, right?
And they are all terrible because they have no idea how to balance their gear.
Ilvl is not everything and that's where the fun resides.
Right now, blizzard is trying to change this so that ilvl will pretty much be everything and you won't even have to think before using your roll.

[djsjr]

^ ^ this is the feeling i got from the post. I play a warrior and im scared for pvp in cata. Being a warrior means big heavy armor and alot of health. now everybody gets great amor and more health and plate does less damage reduction. yay i hope there are talents in the warrior tree to make us feel like a WARRIOR again

nice avatar, i love bleach.

Anyways yeah im sorta scared myself.

[jontaxe]

Pretty much everyone screaming "IT'S GONNA MAKE THE GAME RETARDED!!!!" doesn't understand math, has no grasp whatsoever of what makes a design good or bad, doesn't understand that complexity != decision making, and probably likes cribbage.

At the risk of just repeating what GC has already told you mouthbreathers:
1) Having things like SP plate, SP MP5 mail and SP hit mail that only a single spec of a single class can use is retarded. Having cloth + spir that only some cloth casters like is retarded. It just means more shards per raid. What they are (attempting) to do is reduce the overall stats in the game, but increase and balance the number of stats each class finds useful. As it stands now, most classes heavily prefer 1 stat, sort of like a 2nd, and can tolerate a 3rd.
2) Having duplicate stats that do the exact same thing is also retarded. ArP and AP both increase melee hits. Spir and MP5 are both mana regen talents. There is no possible need to have 2 mana regen talents, ever. All it does is lead to wonky spells or talents like mage molten armor to make one of them useful. On a related note, having an item budget that results in total SP always = a multiple of total Int (as it has been since TBC, roughly) makes having both stats redundant, even if they do technically do different things.
3) Complexity != game depth. Go has 7 rules, yet it is one of (if not the) deepest games that exists.
4) Don't think you are leet because you read the EJ sticky. I best not hear "Ur DUMBING IT DAOWN!!" unless you were one of the ones that sat and took 10,000 swings at a target dummy and then ran the results through regression analysis. Anyone smart enough to do that in the first place is looking forward to new theorycrafting, not whining here. If, OTOH, you just want to "lOL" at your pugmate and feel smug because you read the EJ sticky and they didn't... well, don't let the door hit your leet vanilla naxx raiding ass on the way out. Peace, friend.

Current stats are sort of a crufty mess because of a few mistakes early on. A clean up is needed.

[Brookes]

Pretty much everyone screaming "IT'S GONNA MAKE THE GAME RETARDED!!!!" doesn't understand math, has no grasp whatsoever of what makes a design good or bad, doesn't understand that complexity != decision making, and probably likes cribbage.

At the risk of just repeating what GC has already told you mouthbreathers:
1) Having things like SP plate, SP MP5 mail and SP hit mail that only a single spec of a single class can use is retarded. Having cloth + spir that only some cloth casters like is retarded. It just means more shards per raid. What they are (attempting) to do is reduce the overall stats in the game, but increase and balance the number of stats each class finds useful. As it stands now, most classes heavily prefer 1 stat, sort of like a 2nd, and can tolerate a 3rd.
2) Having duplicate stats that do the exact same thing is also retarded. ArP and AP both increase melee hits. Spir and MP5 are both mana regen talents. There is no possible need to have 2 mana regen talents, ever. All it does is lead to wonky spells or talents like mage molten armor to make one of them useful. On a related note, having an item budget that results in total SP always = a multiple of total Int (as it has been since TBC, roughly) makes having both stats redundant, even if they do technically do different things.
3) Complexity != game depth. Go has 7 rules, yet it is one of (if not the) deepest games that exists.
4) Don't think you are leet because you read the EJ sticky. I best not hear "Ur DUMBING IT DAOWN!!" unless you were one of the ones that sat and took 10,000 swings at a target dummy and then ran the results through regression analysis. Anyone smart enough to do that in the first place is looking forward to new theorycrafting, not whining here. If, OTOH, you just want to "lOL" at your pugmate and feel smug because you read the EJ sticky and they didn't... well, don't let the door hit your leet vanilla naxx raiding ass on the way out. Peace, friend.

Current stats are sort of a crufty mess because of a few mistakes early on. A clean up is needed.

Q
F
T

[Zargzak]

3) Complexity != game depth. Go has 7 rules, yet it is one of (if not the) deepest games that exists.

Not to mention, go is a game of endless possibilities and neverending variety...
Just to think of it, you can get black chips or white.
And you can place your chip at so many fields...
*gasps overwhelmed with prespectives*

No seriously, people, stop putting game of go to discussion, it makes you look dumb.

[Pumps]

Just hope Mages will get some compensation for the loss of Rank 1 Frostbolt

They probably data mined and realized you are the only one who uses it.