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  1. #921
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowrune View Post
    whats teh best ench for weapon these days? since the changes to mongoose is it worth using it for dps

    http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...scalp&cn=Druci
    and if ya got any tips as to what to do to increas my dps from my gear if anything ^^
    Mongoose is pretty much only worth using if you're below 60% crit raidbuffed. Beyond that berserking is best, until you get near BiS gear. When you're arpen, hit, expertise and crit capped, black magic pulls ahead of berserking for single target dps, due to haste scaling so well with your capped stats.

    Your talent spec is lacking a bit, you're missing 4% crit due to not having master shapeshifter. You can easily drop some points in furor, nurturing instinct, feral aggression, improved leader of the pack or survival instincts to get it. Some more points in improved mangle would also be nice, unless you got an arms warrior or feral tank in your raids.

    Since you're engineer, you really should put nitro boosts on your boots. The speed boost easily makes up for the small loss of hit rating. Also put the agility parachute enchant on your cloak. Bracers should have 50ap enchant, weapon enchant should probably be massacre since you're so low on hit/expertise atm, which causes berserking to have a relatively low uptime. Your gems look fine, no comment on those

  2. #922
    All in all I feel that my gear is pretty good, but I'm using executioner to put me at 99.5% armor pen. Do you know when I should switch it back out for Black Magic and start gemming armor pen again?

    --Thanks, Chaka

    Because this is my first post, I can't post a link. But if you search for "Chakamber", I'm the only one on the armory.

  3. #923
    thx alot for the fast comment mihir ill look into it and the back and bracers i forgot to ecnh them since i won them last night :P

    ill look into spec but would prefer not to drop nurturing since i tend to over aggro trash alot and it helps alot to keeping me alvie when ehalers swap to me :P
    Last edited by shadowrune; 2010-08-12 at 05:54 PM.

  4. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowrune View Post
    ill look into spec but would prefer not to drop nurturing since i tend to over aggro trash alot and it helps alot to keeping me alvie when ehalers swap to me :P
    you worried about pulling aggro on trash is stupid compared to gaining 4% crit on boss fights .. drop the points and gain the 4% crit. be a good druid not a bad one

  5. #925
    Kind of off topic question, lets say we're doin heroic 25m DBS and are 2-3 healing it for a short burst fight. We bloodlust off the pull, do i want to berserk at the beginning like normal or stagger it after the bloodlust?

  6. #926
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    They don't multiply with each other so it doesn't really matter. There has been some talk of getting energy-capped due to too many OoC procs from the bloodlust haste and unable to spend it due to berserk, but reality is that this pretty much never happens. Ideally you want to time your berserk together with temporary damage increasing buffs/debuffs like DBW proc, hysteria, shattering throw, etc. Usually all these things proc/get used together at the start of the fight so that's also your queue to pop berserk.

    ---------- Post added 2010-08-13 at 11:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka View Post
    All in all I feel that my gear is pretty good, but I'm using executioner to put me at 99.5% armor pen. Do you know when I should switch it back out for Black Magic and start gemming armor pen again?

    --Thanks, Chaka

    Because this is my first post, I can't post a link. But if you search for "Chakamber", I'm the only one on the armory.
    Pretty much when you can reach the hardcap, without sacrificing too much stuff. For example, you could switch to the emblems cloak to reach the hardcap, but you would lose out on too much stats compared to using the gunship25hc cloak to be worth it. So just wait for a better neck or ring, or some more 277 versions of your current items, before switching to hardcap.
    Last edited by Mihir; 2010-08-13 at 09:37 AM.

  7. #927
    Mihir wrote: "They don't multiply with each other so it doesn't really matter. There has been some talk of getting energy-capped due to too many OoC procs from the bloodlust haste and unable to spend it due to berserk, but reality is that this pretty much never happens"

    My understanding is that it does matter a little. You are saving 42 energy with OoC procs outside of berserk and only saving 21 energy on Ooc procs during berserk. So maximizing OoC procs outside of berserk is a win even without any energy capping issues.

    However, other things frequently are happening during lust, like shattering throw, some kind of special burn phase, etc. I've never seen any detailed analysis comparing the value of these things, but I would like to.

    It would go something like this:
    1. figure out how many extra OoC procs you get on average during a period of lust equal to the time berserk is up.
    2. mulitiply that number by 21--that's how much energy you would be wasting by having berserk up during lust.
    3. Guestimate how much dmg you could have done with that lost energy.
    4. Guestimate how much extra dmg you could have gotten by using beserk during lust with the extra damage increasing buffs that are active during lust (like shattering throw).
    Last edited by medloh; 2010-08-13 at 05:45 PM.

  8. #928
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    I doubt that those few extra OoC's under the effect of berserk are worse than not doing all those berserked shreds with all temporary buffs/debuffs up, but I guess it would be nice to get some numbers behind it yeah.

    I can get you some of those; simcraft estimates damage per point of energy in bis gear without icc buff at 1150, however since the extra energy you get will likely only be spent on more shreds (as stuff like rip/rake can't be really be used more in the available time) we should look at the DPE of shred which is around 640.

    So every extra berserk ooc shred due to bloodlust costs 13.5k dmg.

    Looking through my last LK25H kill, my shreds hit about 2-2.5k harder at the start than 30+ seconds after the start when the temp (de)buffs have worn off. Removing the 30% ICC buff from that it ends up at ~1.7k dmg per shred.

    With an average un-bloodlusted attack speed of 0.68 raid buffed (taken from rawr), during 15 seconds you would get 22 attacks in, which with 4% chance of ooc procs, would result in 0.88 ooc procs. bloodlust is a 30% increase so it would cause an extra 0.26 ooc.

    So the total dmg lost due to berserking during bloodlust = 0.26 * 13.5k = 3.6k dmg.

    So, if I would more than 2 extra shreds in due to berserk it would offset the dmg lost due to ooc berserk shreds. Of which I'm pretty sure I do, as I shredded 7x during the berserk (as well as an FB).

  9. #929
    At the start of a fight all your internal cooldown items are off cooldown and will all proc inside the first 10 seconds of the fight.
    You berserk in this period at the start of the fight come rain hail or shine for the most boss dps, only reason not to is if you're saving it for burst later.

    OOC is still RNG, some of the best damage logs have retardedly lucky amounts of OOC procs.
    I did 14k damage on toravon yesterday, if i added 30% buff to that it's more damage than I've ever done in a recorded ICC fight, luck is luck in the RNG front.

    To further the relying on luck screws you over factor.
    Did 16k in a flat 3min saurfang this week 0.63 attack speed, had 5 OOC in 40seconds of bloodlust, 12 in the other 140seconds. 5 of those 12 outside bloodlust happened in a 20second period however.
    RNG is RNG.
    Last edited by axxey; 2010-08-16 at 12:39 AM.

  10. #930
    Hi All,
    Hoping to get some advice on some issues in my current setup.

    I’m hitting 80+% Crit on my paper doll stats during DBW’s Agi proc. But Rawr is still telling me to gem Agi
    I’ve started putting haste in my gear instead, but I’m wondering given the Agility Procs limited uptime (~10%)should I gem agility until I’m passively Crit capped, or will Haste be my better stat.
    I’ve consulted Rawr but I’m not happy with how it models Crit procs (as far as I can tell it averages them out)
    Profile - http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...yto&gn=Molotov
    note: Disregard mongoose, I was using my weapon to tank for a raid. Will chant black magic when I get a chance. Also I have the just picked up the 264 Frostbitten fur boots which I gemmed 10agi/10haste and +34haste dragons eye, no idea why I logged off with my old boots on.

  11. #931
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    It seems a bit weird indeed, but i tried this in simcraft a couple of days ago. There's basically 2 options: going berserking with haste gems, or going black magic with crit cap. BM with crit cap seems to pull ahead very slightly. So even tho the agi proc puts you over the crit cap, it's not a hardcap, and the uptime isn't high enough, so you still want to go for the crit cap without that proc.

    I can also recommend not going over the arpen cap, it's better to be slightly below it, as those 5 points you're over it are doing nothing for your dps.

    I seem to get the best results with 9x 20arpen, 1x 34agi, 2x 34hit, 5x 10agi+10hit, 2x 20agi, 2x 10hit+10exp, as well as putting 20hit on gloves and using 40arpen food. Nightmare tear can be moved to your weapon for a slight increase as well. You should end up at 229 hit, 126 exp and 1398 arpen this way.
    Last edited by Mihir; 2010-08-16 at 07:35 AM.

  12. #932
    That is very interesting. Thanks for the response

    Being over ArP cap was just me logging out in the wrong gear, i usually sit on 1398 with food buff

  13. #933
    Back again mate,

    I've done as you said (except for the cape as i ran out of badges). I'm now sat at 60 badges and thought i'd ask for you assistance again before i spend them. Should i get the cape, tier shoulders (the ones i have are for tanking), EoF belt (the one i have atm is gemmed for tanking) or something else?

    I spent the money i originally had buying all the gems and enchants so i'm fairly poor for the next few weeks so the crafted boots are out of the question. I also realise the Pyrite Infuser is terribad (read the wowhead comments on it) and i've started the long old slug to get the NES, no luck yet.

    Just wondering if i'm on the right track really

  14. #934
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Definitely the cape, it's nearly bis. Shoulders is only a small difference between tanking/dps since it's only 1 socket and a lame enchant.

  15. #935
    Mihir,

    Here is my armory for reference purposes but my question doesn't directly relate to my personal gearing http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...is&cn=Drakkmur

    My guild recently got heroic 25 Halion and I realized I hadn't updated my BIS list to include these items. I did some work with various simulators/dps calculators and this is what I came up with http://www.wowhead.com/profile=21602151

    Do you have any comments or disagreements about this list? The only special note is that I realize that BM is the bis weapon enchant but I use my wowhead profiles to sim with simulationcraft and BM is currently not supported for ferals so I have kept berserking for my weapon enchant on my profiles.

  16. #936
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Wowhead says your profile doesn't exist. But the new bis list is to get the halion bracers, ring and trinket, and after reaching hit/exp/arpen caps you'll want to gem agi to get back up to the crit cap, and go with BM. An alternative is to gem haste and go with berserking, but agi + bm pulled ahead very slightly for me in simcraft.

    And yeah i made a custom version of simcraft that supports BM for ferals, see http://www.mediafire.com/file/zcrigm...9ob/simc-bm.7z to try it.

    I'll try to get my bis profile uploaded somewhere.

  17. #937
    No idea why that profile doesn't come up. I have it marked public and it comes up for me. My list includes the bracers, ring and trinket. The interesting difference is that Band of the Bone Colossus overtakes the rep ring as BIS now. I see you currently use that ring so I assume you agree with that.

    One other question. Do you FB always with 5 combo points or do you use 4 combo points. I read someplace that if you have 4 combo points, it is better to FB then and follow it with a shred instead of using shred to get to 5 and then FBing since you will lose a bonus combo point on that shred roughly 70% of the time. Any thoughts.

  18. #938
    Hey Mihir,

    Just get the Oathbinder and arp cap, but lost a lot crit (had a Distant Land heroic), what should I do now? What is the best gem, enchant for me now? I sacrifice hit / exp?

    I have in the bank: the chest T10 264, hands badge and Hood's Cloak Slayer Shadowvault heroic.

    Sorry Mih, im new in the forum, cant post my armory link , if u can see... Char: Filéh, Realm: Warsong/US

    Pls help me!

    Thx!!

  19. #939
    Hi Mihir! Are you going to get RS25HC trinket?

  20. #940
    Quote Originally Posted by Roxn View Post
    Hi Mihir! Are you going to get RS25HC trinket?
    You might want to scroll up 3 posts to #936 where he says the trinket is now BIS.

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