Icecrown Citadel Zone Buff, Blue posts

[Waterisbest]

[quoteI think SSC had the worst trash in the entire game, the list goes on, T.


sounds like someone never did AQ40. Jesus christ the trash at the end was painful.

Never did the place at 60, i started in tbc. But according to blizz and many people who raided naxx40, say it had the most awful trash.

[alt]

This is only partially true, I remember times in TBC where we would be working on M'uru or Kael'thas and have trash respawn ontop of us, there was a lot of trash in TBC, Sunwell had a lot, Hyjal had waves and if you wiped on a wave you had to start ALL over again, how could you forget that? BT had some awful trash, and I think SSC had the worst trash in the entire game, the list goes on, TK, Mag, Gruul, even Karazhan had a ton of trash. If you added up how much time it took to clear to all of the bosses, yeah you'd be dumbfounded. My TBC guild raided something like 5 days a week for TK, SSC, BT, Hyjal. It's not like Wotlk where you had TOC which had no trash, Ulduar which has very little trash between bosses, Sarth which had minibosses and small trash packs, Malygos which had no trash, I think the most trash so far has to be ICC, could be wrong.

I wouldn't say it was that bad. The first 4 bosses in Hyjal are on the order of normal modes in WotLK anyway. The only difficult part of the instance was Archimonde and he had no trash. M'uru didn't really have that much trash, only a few pulls. After they fixed SSC/TK in 2.1, the rest of the bosses that had terrible trash were either easy bosses or let you rez and recover in their room without redoing much of their trash. Only Kael'thas and Kalecgos were the exceptions I could remember, difficult bosses that had lots of respawning trash that needed to be killed again.

In spite of all that, my guild got to Sapphiron before TBC hit and just killed M'uru before patch 3.0. In WotLK, we were unable to beat Mimiron hard mode, Freya hard mode, YS +2/3/4 and Algalon before we stopped Ulduar to concentrate on TOGC.

There are only a few normal mode encounters in WotLK that aren't a complete faceroll (YS, Mimiron, Lanathel, Putricide, Sindragosa, LK) and Blizzard is nerfing them very soon after we beat them (or before we do, in LK's case). With how difficult heroic modes are and how slight the better rewards are, many guilds like mine are getting to the point where we just want to faceroll what Blizzard lets us faceroll and then call it a day until they nerf the next encounter.

[Tombstone]

I wouldn't say it was that bad. The first 4 bosses in Hyjal are on the order of normal modes in WotLK anyway. The only difficult part of the instance was Archimonde and he had no trash. M'uru didn't really have that much trash, only a few pulls. After they fixed SSC/TK in 2.1, the rest of the bosses that had terrible trash were either easy bosses or let you rez and recover in their room without redoing much of their trash. Only Kael'thas and Kalecgos were the exceptions I could remember, difficult bosses that had lots of respawning trash that needed to be killed again.

In spite of all that, my guild got to Sapphiron before TBC hit and just killed M'uru before patch 3.0. In WotLK, we were unable to beat Mimiron hard mode, Freya hard mode, YS +2/3/4 and Algalon before we stopped Ulduar to concentrate on TOGC.

There are only a few normal mode encounters in WotLK that aren't a complete faceroll (YS, Mimiron, Lanathel, Putricide, Sindragosa, LK) and Blizzard is nerfing them very soon after we beat them (or before we do, in LK's case). With how difficult heroic modes are and how slight the better rewards are, many guilds like mine are getting to the point where we just want to faceroll what Blizzard lets us faceroll and then call it a day until they nerf the next encounter.

I was talking about the amount trash, not boss difficulty. Having trash spawn ontop of us during a boss encounter was only a problem some of the time, only a few bosses I can think of had trash either directly in our path or shortly before when we had to run back from a wipe. I used Hyjal as an example because if you wiped on one of the bosses before Archimonde you had to do the trash all over again, if I remember correctly.

[alt]

This all time, people have been coming on forums and saying how easy and limited trash is compared to vanilla and tbc, and the trash has been reduced and dumbed down in wotlk when compared to tbc, i played tbc from start.

It's not a bad thing to nerf trash, really. Trash never challenged people, even if they wipe them on occasion. It's just there to slow people down by making them rez a few players every now and then and have to pause to give sheep targets and crap. That said, it never reached a point where it was 50% of the raid time unless you have the instance completely on farm mode.

[Nymrohd]

Eek at AQ40 trash. Anubisath nightmare brigade or AQ suppression madness!

And trash could be challenging tbh. I think more people would die to Kael trash than to Void Reaver tbh.

[Geekbustarz]

So what you're saying is that haste will affect 100% of melee class's damage just like it will affect 100% of ranged class's damage. Hmm, sounds so unfair.

Yeah, it's unfair. Why should melee get faster resource-regeneration AND faster hits, and ranged (casters)
Only get x % faster casting?...

EDIT: wops, forgot the lower GCD... my bad :x

[Jasyn]

Eek at AQ40 trash. Anubisath nightmare brigade or AQ suppression madness!

And trash could be challenging tbh. I think more people would die to Kael trash than to Void Reaver tbh.

More people die to lootreaver trash than to lootreaver. Buzz-saw throwing bastards.

[Jasyn]

Yeah, it's unfair. Why should melee get faster resource-regeneration AND faster hits, and ranged (casters)
Only get x % faster casting?...

Faster casting and faster GCD.

[Geekbustarz]

Faster casting and faster GCD.

Yeah.. just remembered. sorry :P

[Waterisbest]

It's not a bad thing to nerf trash, really. Trash never challenged people, even if they wipe them on occasion. It's just there to slow people down by making them rez a few players every now and then and have to pause to give sheep targets and crap. That said, it never reached a point where it was 50% of the raid time unless you have the instance completely on farm mode.

Trash in tbc did challenge alot of guilds and was time consuming. The borg lords in ssc could instantly kill people if you didn't move from his acid in a sec. Also what Jasyn said.

People hardly spend time on trash now, in tbc trash was a big deal and by looking at things, in vanilla aswell.

If you didn't find tbc trash hard and time consuming, then your a complete different pro who stayed under the radar for all of WoW :P

[Tombstone]

Trash in tbc did challenge alot of guilds and was time consuming. The borg lords in ssc could instantly kill people if you didn't move from his acid in a sec. Also what Jasyn said.

People hardly spend time on trash now, in tbc trash was a big deal and by looking at things, in vanilla aswell.

If you didn't find tbc trash hard and time consuming, then your a complete different pro who stayed under the radar for all of WoW :P

Things trash offered in TBC:

1. Trash Epics (Lots of them)
2. Rep
3. Use of CC (Remember CC? Yeah, we used it.)
4. Coordination, everything wasn't just bunched up and AoE'd down.
5. Patterns, craftables (Vortexs etc) lots of them.

Did I forget anything?

[Siton]

Ulduar had some interesting trash ideas, but they were completely wiped in ToC+ICC

[alt]

Trash in tbc did challenge alot of guilds and was time consuming. The borg lords in ssc could instantly kill people if you didn't move from his acid in a sec. Also what Jasyn said.

People hardly spend time on trash now, in tbc trash was a big deal and by looking at things, in vanilla aswell.

If you didn't find tbc trash hard and time consuming, then your a complete different pro who stayed under the radar for all of WoW :P

I think you misunderstood that post. Trash wasn't hard in the sense that you didn't really have to learn them. Except Kalecgos' trash, which was retardedly difficult. It was just time consuming in that it will kill a few raid members here and there, slowing people down. Or it will make people waste so much time giving CC targets and crap like that. Time consuming plays a part in difficulty but it doesn't necessarily make things difficult if they are time-consuming.

Supremus, for example, is just like a trash mob. He almost never fails to kill some people in my guild, took a long time to kill but really was an easy boss that we almost never wipe to.

[alt]

Also remember, trash also dropped a lot more epics and it seemed to drop them a lot more often considering the amount of trash there was. It also gave rep and they dropped patterns for professions. I think it was a big part of TBC.

I was never a fan of that. People shouldn't be able to grind trash to get BiS gear. Not to mention it made people give the wrong reactions to wiping and having trash respawn. Yay we wiped to Kalecgos, more trash farming!

[Pisholina]

So everyone here seems to argue about the topic that will end when Blizzard announces soething new. But guess what? All the flaming, nerdraging and yelling at each other won't make Blizzard change their minds. The buff will stay, you will do ICC the way you want to, everyone will be happy.

And about people saying that the guys that downed ICC first will have a moral breakdown, I can only say it happens all the time. How many of you had a Grand Ice Mammoth before 3.1, when you actually had to do the dailys for Sons of Hodir rep and then spending 8000 gold on the mount? I did that and when I did, I bragged to all my friends about it. And all of a sudden my friend has the same mount only in black color just because he was lucky on a roll from VoA raid. How would you feel? So I am telling you again, It happens all the time and guess what? You can't do ANYTHING to stop it.

[furydeath]

lol i wanta see a lich king kill where it says raid ID reset in 6 mins. XD

[Waterisbest]

Ulduar had some interesting trash ideas, but they were completely wiped in ToC+ICC

According to me, ICC trash is interesting, all the traps make you think before running in and mashing your keys, not to forget some awesome mini bosses. Ulduar trash was good aswell.

[Tombstone]

So everyone here seems to argue about the topic that will end when Blizzard announces soething new. But guess what? All the flaming, nerdraging and yelling at each other won't make Blizzard change their minds. The buff will stay, you will do ICC the way you want to, everyone will be happy.

And about people saying that the guys that downed ICC first will have a moral breakdown, I can only say it happens all the time. How many of you had a Grand Ice Mammoth before 3.1, when you actually had to do the dailys for Sons of Hodir rep and then spending 8000 gold on the mount? I did that and when I did, I bragged to all my friends about it. And all of a sudden my friend has the same mount only in black color just because he was lucky on a roll from VoA raid. How would you feel? So I am telling you again, It happens all the time and guess what? You can't do ANYTHING to stop it.

Because having a ground mount in the age of flying mounts was a personal feat of strength and a sign of accomplishment? I don't think I have ever seen anyone brag about having a Grand Ice Mammoth or even a Black War Mammoth, I bought mine for 3k gold from a VoA10 and felt nothing about it. This game has gotten to the point where mounts don't mean anything unless you get them from a Meta, and even then it doesn't mean that much because you can fork over a ton of gold and get a Rusted or Ironbound, and within a few months people will be selling the ICC ones. Just my two cents, don't nerdrage over it.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Yeah, it's unfair. Why should melee get faster resource-regeneration AND faster hits, and ranged (casters)
Only get x % faster casting?...

EDIT: wops, forgot the lower GCD... my bad :x

Because you guys start with a boat load of mana that is slowly whittled down and regenerated through things like replenishment, whereas melee starts with a finite amount using abilities that take up 30-40% of our total resources (compared to say 1-2%)?

[Waterisbest]

Because having a ground mount in the age of flying mounts was a personal feat of strength and a sign of accomplishment? I don't think I have ever seen anyone brag about having a Grand Ice Mammoth or even a Black War Mammoth, I bought mine for 3k gold from a VoA10 and felt nothing about it. This game has gotten to the point where mounts don't mean anything unless you get them from a Meta, and even then it doesn't mean that much because you can fork over a ton of gold and get a Rusted or Ironbound, and within a few months people will be selling the ICC ones. Just my two cents, don't nerdrage over it.

Guilds will always sell meta mounts. Just like many guilds sold ZA mount. They see it as a good income. There is nothing blizz can do about it. The real pros are running around with death's demise, grand crusader and atm kingslayer (not sure if there is a title to kill LK on hc mode). Titles are the best thing to distinguish between hardcore and good raider. Bragging over a mount never made sense to me.